Thursday, November 03, 2011

ANIMALS AND FLY TIPPING


First off, the schedule for the Day of Zazen that I'm hosting up in Essex on this coming Saturday is at the bottom of this blog. I put up a tentative schedule a little while ago. This has now been revised.

Today is my last day in London. Last night I appeared on a programme (note spelling) called Conscious.TV taped in Battersea right near the cover of the Pink Floyd album Animals. I'm not kidding. I was walking to the studio and there it was! The cover to that Pink Floyd album! Right next to me. Gosh. Take a look at the photo I took (top) compared with the photo the folks at Hipgnosis took in the Seventies. There was no inflatable pig when I went by, unfortunately.

It turned out to be a night of rock and roll. The host of conscious.tv is a guy named Iain McNay. I had no idea, but Mr. McNay is the owner of Cherry Red Records, one of the UK's most important punk rock record labels. I've often bought stuff issued by that label. I would never have suspected that the guy who founded the label would now be hosting a TV programme devoted to non-duality. You just never know how these things happen.

It was a great interview. One of the best I've done. I accept a lot of interview requests. In fact, I rarely turn any of them down. I have no idea what any of them are going to be like. Sometimes the interviewers are absolutely clueless about what I do. Those are weird. I have no idea why they've even asked me on their shows. Sometimes the interviewer has some apparent agenda that they are hoping I'll support. Those can also be a bit uncomfortable. Sometimes the interviewers are extremely knowledgeable and have a lot of interesting questions. Those are the ones I like. And, in fact, most the interviews I do are pretty good. Iain McNay was one of the really good ones. The interview will be posted in a couple weeks and I'll put a link up when it is.

While in London I've stayed at my friend Andrew's flat in the picturesquely named London subsection of Shoreditch in Hackney. His place is on the Northern Line. There's fifty two stations on the Northern Line.

Andrew is a student of Mike Luetchford who is another dharma heir of Gudo Nishijima. Mike has been running a Zen group called Dogen Sangha UK out of Bristol for a number of years now. He was one of the first of Nishijima's students to go out on his own as a teacher. You can find info about the groups he set up in Bristol and London at their webpage. I highly recommend these guys if you're looking for a solid sitting group in the UK.

I'm feeling a whole lot better so I may just get through this tour after all! I walked all over London last night. Found a place that sells vegetarian fish and chips so I'm gonna go back there for lunch today.

Finally, I need someone to explain this sign I took a photo of. It's not far from the Battersea power station. I understand that fly tipping is an offence (note spelling). But what is fly tipping?

Is it like cow tipping, a favourite sport in rural parts of America where teenagers go out at night and tip over sleeping cows? Do you sneak up on snoozing flies and gingerly push them over with your fingers? Or do flies in England work on a straight salary basis so it is illegal to tip them for their work? Or perhaps they don't want the flies to know where the juiciest garbage is, so it is therefore illegal to top them as to the location?

I must know the answer!!

****

DAY OF ZAZEN WITH BRAD WARNER
AT BRENTWOOD MEDITATION GROUP


9.30 Welcome with refreshments.

10.00 Group introduction, Brad’s introduction
10.30 Zazen
11.00 Kinhin
11.15 Zazen
11.45 Brad’s Dharma talk
12.45 Open forum

1.00 Shared lunch

2.00 Zazen
2.30 Kinhin
2.45 Zazen
3.15 Chanting

3.30 Tea

4.00 Zazen
4.30 Open forum, reflections of the day

55 comments:

vinegardaoist said...

Fly-tipping (also known as "fly dumping",[1] and sometimes shortened to tipping) is a British term for dumping waste illegally instead of in an authorised rubbish dump. It is the illegal deposit of any waste onto land, i.e. waste dumped or tipped on a site with no licence to accept waste.[2][3]

The term is derived from the verb tip, meaning "to throw out of a vehicle" and on the fly, meaning "on the wing" — to throw away carelessly or casually.[4]

eFDee said...

Brad, Lazy Brad, WIKI knows all. but OK you're a busy man.

Fly-tipping (also known as "fly dumping", and sometimes shortened to tipping) is a British term for dumping waste illegally instead of in an authorised rubbish dump. It is the illegal deposit of any waste onto land, i.e. waste dumped or tipped on a site with no licence to accept waste.[2][3]
The term is derived from the verb tip, meaning "to throw out of a vehicle" and on the fly, meaning "on the wing" — to throw away carelessly or casually.[4]

Frank D

Seagal Rinpoche said...

By three methods we may learn wisdom: first, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is the most bitter.

Michael Dorfman said...

Here is everything you need to know about fly tipping:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/Streetcleaninglitterandillegaldumping/DG_10029700

anon #108 said...

Now if I'd have known you were in London last night, Brad, I would have recommended you got yourself to my band's gig - in SHOREDITCH! - wherein we truly kicked ass! Truly. We were on late, you might have been able to make it.

Andrew, you numpty - whyfore was I not informed of his Bradness's imminence???

Glad you're feeling better and enjoying our quaint lil ol city, Brad.

Fly-tipping = dumping rubbish (what you guys call trash, I believe)

J.M. said...

Hi Brad

Here is the definition of fly tiping from the 'keep Britain tidy' website:


'There is no specific definition of fly-tipping other than that set out in section 33 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, which says it is an offence to treat, keep or dispose of controlled waste without a waste management licence or in a manner likely to cause pollution of the environment or harm to human health.'

So there you go. Keep on with the always interesting posts on you blog.

J.M.

Steve said...

'Fly Tipping' illegal waste dumping.

proulx michel said...

Or perhaps they don't want the flies to know where the juiciest garbage is, so it is therefore illegal to top them as to the location?

This ought to be the best definition of them all...

Ralph Hoyte said...

it's a mis-spelling of 'Fuli Te-ping'. The well-known Fuli-Te-ping Roshi holds zazen flashmobs there every Friday 4 o'clock

Natur said...

Personally I think five rounds of zazen is too easy. The people might get a wrong idea of zazen as just another a way to "relax".

Mysterion said...

The nice thing about the Brits and the Yankees is that we are two peoples separated by a common language.

Mysterion said...

optimal zazen varies from person-to-person and culture-to-culture.

Adjust zazen to local tastes. To curry favor, curry flavor.

john e mumbles said...

Fly tipping refers to the gratuity you leave for the fly who was doing the back stroke in your soup.

PhilBob-SquareHead said...

I've been aware of Conscious TV for awhile now. They have two really good interviews I've watched several times. UG Krishnamurti from 25 yrs ago and one with Tony Parsons from '08. But I haven't watched the ones of Genpo Roshi or Andrew Cohen. Figured those were more up Brad's alley. Hehehehe.....

an3drew said...

"By three methods we may learn wisdom:"

wisdom is a sententious prat!

.

Doug said...

"Fly tipping", huh? That's a new one to me. I lived in Ireland next door for a while, and never heard that term.

@Mysterion: it is interesting how so many countries all speak English (US, Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand), but everyone has their idiosyncrasies that have evolved over time. I work in a large company where coworkers come from these countries and more, and yet it still amazes me of the subtle differences in each one. :)

Khru said...

This thread is a giant, stinking pile of fly-tipping...or something like that.

Natur said...

"optimal zazen varies from person-to-person and culture-to-culture."

I think that is true when it comes to questions like "Should we wear robes / recite the XY Suta / ..." But concerning the posture and the proper schedule of a sesshin or daily sitting I do not think that people differ that much. Someone might need a bit more ans someone else a bit less but I think there should be a certain minimum as a necessary basis. But this is just my personal opinion, I might be wrong of course.

Fred said...

The backward step into the light
is beyond cultural distinctions.
You watch the self and the whatness
of the world to forget the self.

It is possible to realize the
ineffable without any culturally
sanctioned method.

Fred said...

Doge had this to say about
flytipping:

"Fifty-four years lighting up the sky.
A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
Hah!
Entire body looks for nothing. Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs"

an3drew said...

it's sorta like the end of a bed time story, everything has ended happily or unhappily and the listeners and readers tucked up comfy have all gone back to their little worlds

this blog after the semi-removal of anonymous posting !

an3drew said...

a better translation of dogens fly tip

nothing new about zombies i am afraid, it makes me wonder about the extent to which it came from japan !

i hope this dogen fresh to you, it certainly did to me !

Fred said...

"For fifty-four years

Following the way of heaven;

Now leaping beyond,

Shattering every barrier,

Amazing! To cast off all attachments,

While still alive, plunging into the Yellow Springs."

Fred said...

Yes, Dogen was the living dead. He
was dead to the pull of samsara,
dead to the woes of being trapped
in time, and dead to the monkey
brain that salivates on cue.

We should be grateful for his gift
of sitting and walking meditation
given to us, the dead living.

Mysterion said...

Blogger john e mumbles said...
"Fly tipping refers to the gratuity you leave for the fly who was doing the back stroke in your soup."


LOL

yer a yank, aren't ye?

Mysterion said...

the posture doesn't change

what changes is the frequency and duration of the sitting.

In some cultures, one a.m. and one p.m. sitting is sufficient. In other cultures, there are six or even eight sittings a day. Whether the duration if the sitting is 20 minutes (as in my own practice) or 40 minutes (at in Soto Temple practice) is a matter of taste.

Also, whether it is proper (or acceptable) to use a bench or chair varies.

I don't obsess on these trivial matters. If your practice is sitting 45 minutes on a chair or 15 minutes on a bench it's just fine with me. Whatever chimes your bell.

Likewise, sometimes dharma talks are 5 minutes and sometimes they seem like three generations.

Mysterion said...

I just watched the 'live action' (e.g. ordinary motion picture) of THIS turkey and remembered that this is november.

one underlying theme is that the Tokogawa Shogunate suppressed Xtianity (true) and the devil is tricking people into fighting for his benefit. Because the Tokogawa clan closed Japan for 250 years, much of the culture survived into the 20th century (e.g. 1900).

Convict said...

What's the point of a sitting group? Serious question. I mean, why not just sit at home? Is there an advantage to the collective setting?

Jeff said...

Vegetarian fish and chips? How does that work?

an3drew said...

fred writes :

"We should be grateful for his gift
of sitting and walking meditation
given to us, the dead living."

dogen is the biggest screw up to ever hit zen because he's such an unholy mixture of right and wrong ! his last poem is right, his early stuff is wrong and a fucking curse on him for that !

an3drew said...

"Is there an advantage to the collective setting?"

it's the gap between the teachers understanding or his ability to create the appearance of such a gap that drives an interest in retreats !

when the gap disappears or the illusion of the gap is penetrated the interest disappears

until that gap disappears you going to be caught up in all sorts of nuttiness like collective or individual sitting

an3drew said...

it's the gap between the teachers understanding and your's that i mean of course

i will say that a lot of teachers are very skilled at creating the appearance of a gap

i started and finished with john loori, a bloody good voynicher and went on to toni packer who is way straighter but in fact most of the work was done with john loori so i guess it may not matter much

Fred said...

Andrew it's all voynich to the
deepest of the deep. Everyone is
where they are, and has a right to
be there.

We make judgements about people
without having walked in their
shoes. Does Infinity have an
opinion?

anon #108 said...

Hi convict,

I didn't hear your question as an enquiry about the value of a teacher, but about the value of sitting with other people. I assume some sitting groups are 'led' by teachers and some aren't. I assume some groups sit and go home, some sit and chat, some sit and study texts, with or without a teacher.

Everybody I've heard talk about group sitting agrees that it's easier to stay sat for a pre-determined period with a group. No one is forcing you to stay put along with everyone else, but you feel some pressure, some duty to conform. At least most people seem to. That discipline may be something you find useful.

Others speak about a special feeling that comes from doing the same thing in a room with other people, and they like that feeling. Some people like groups, some don't. I haven't sat regularly with the group I still consider myself (somehow) part of for sometime. Only you can discover if group sitting has any advantage over sitting at home.

Mysterion said...

Cognitive content ---->

intended message ---->

encoding ---->

encoding errors ---->

channel of communication ---->

noise in the channel ---->

decoding ---->

decoding errors ---->

distorted (perceived) message ---->

Dissimilar cognitive content.


And the above is as good as it gets.

anon #108 said...

Brad,

Re moderation: how about keeping comments 'names' only but letting them all through until you (or whoever) gets a chance to check them? You can then remove the stuff you want to remove. That way we don't have to wait an age for comments to appear; we can have a conversation if we fancy, and we don't all end up saying the same thing. I can't see that would take much, if any, more time than what's currently being done - you've got to skim through it all whichever way you do it.

I suppose it's possible that things might get a little crazy again (bad thing? OK, bad thing), but I doubt it would last - not if truly daft/troll stuff disappeared within hours of going up.

Mysterion said...

Here's 25¢ for that poor fly over there...

Mysterion said...

I sit at home. (My wife corrects my posture)

The purpose of a sitting group is to create a space and place wherein you can develop good sitting posture.

With good sitting posture, you can sit an hour as easily as you can sit 10 minutes.

an3drew said...

mysterion writes:

"If your practice is sitting 45 minutes on a chair or 15 minutes on a bench"

that's the point isn't it, "practice" and not real

there's a billion monk hours gone into this sort of thing and they might has well have played golf !

you are all completely estranged from the fundamental insight yet write so definitively on here about what you are totally clueless about !

Natur said...

"the posture doesn't change"

That would mean that everybody sits in the full lotus posture which is not the case.

"[...] Whether the duration if the sitting is 20 minutes (as in my own practice) or 40 minutes (at in Soto Temple practice) is a matter of taste. Also, whether it is proper (or acceptable) to use a bench or chair varies. I don't obsess on these trivial matters."

Actually I do not believe that these matters are trivial. The important point in my opinion is the right motivation. If you sit 20 minutes because your sangha sits 20 minutes then that is quite natural and the duration of sitting becomes indeed a "trivial matter". If you sit 20 minutes because you are too lazy to sit something like 30 minutes or whatever and you say that these matters are trivial as a kind of excuse then that is not so good.

Geoff Cline said...

Don't know what fly tipping is (except for reading these comments) but I do know that you and Gudo Nishijima have changed my life for the better. Thanks for that.

From the Hill Country, west of Austin, TX

an3drew said...

"We make judgements about people
without having walked in their
shoes. Does Infinity have an
opinion?"


does infinity say hitler was bad and mother teresa good

yes it does and so do i without having walked in their shoes !

an3drew said...

lying in bed with a digital voice recorder beats sitting by a hundred miles !

in my zen travels years ago i noticed that zen and other teachers hardly ever sat and i think the main reason apart from the fact it's easy to get sick of and has no real point, is once you get over 40, or even 30 with the state of health today, that constricted limb postion is distinctly and dangerously THROMBOTIC

Fred said...

Funny stuff

"fred, i'm not trying to be unpleasant but you are missing the boat ! there is an alignment between the conditioned self and infinity if you are open to it and in your case this means going back to square one and seeing you have advanced much further in your own mind than in fact !

you just don't read around enough for instance, poetry for instance which is more the native tongue of infinity !

also in practise you need to look at what you don't understand and accept that there may be things which make sense and you simply don't understand because of necessary shortfalls in the way you look at things "

an3drew said...

interestingly i think the virus brad got has hit tasmania, australia it makes one very tired and can have gut and lung and throat complications

the way these things bus around the world so quickly is just amazing !

Fred said...

The tip for dealing with
Australian flies is to swat them
before they cut a hole in your
flesh to lay their eggs.

Infinity has no opinion, nor does
the unborn and the undead.

Mysterion said...

Blogger an3drew said...
Chas sed:
"If your practice..."

an3drew sed:
"that's the point isn't it, practice and not real"

Andrew:
Doctors practice medicine.
Lawyers practice law.
Buddhists practice sitting.

If you do not understand the ambiguity of the American English language, how can you ever hope to understand anything?

After dessert I drove to the desert and found the road completely deserted.

nevermind...

Mysterion said...

Odd, it doesn't mention molestation.














That's the underlying issue (or gorilla in the room) isn't it.

Fred said...

A man of no distinction living in
the deserted wasteland with only
the flytip blowing in the wind and
his just desserts, the ineffable,
for lunch and supper.

chu said...

Brad: You had a blog that was fun to read right down to the comments section. You made some changes. Nowadays you get about a dozen comments right off the bat which are mostly pleasant, then Fric and Frac take over. Being polite should not trump being interesting, because they're not that either.

Mysterion said...

Dinner

Supper

The word ‘Dinner’ used to refer to breakfast. The origins of the word dinner are the French word “disnar”, which means “breakfast”.

an3drew said...

fred, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and you removing my "missing the boat" post on your blog means you haven't got to first base yet

the difficulty of this work is way underestimated, if someone like dogen spent a lifetime trying to get it right and you lot blaze in like it's just a case of having coffee at starbucks !

an3drew said...

"Doctors practice medicine.
Lawyers practice law.
Buddhists practice sitting."

in actual fact plumbers don't practice plumbing, that is, in this context the notion of lawyers and doctors and engineers practicing is due to the high social status of professions compared to other work.

buddhism and meditative sitting does not have high social status and the way you are using it is something interesting i have noticed about american zen, that it has grafted the notion of practitioner and practices from christian science, it's actually an alien notion to zen and buddhism !

american zen is suffused with christian science attitudes and vocabulary to a surprising degree, that sort of magical approach !

perhaps it's not so surprising because of mary baker eddy having an “enlightenment” experience

an3drew said...

i wonder if actually "sitting" or meditation is a form of magical thinking?

there is something to magical thinking btw : o )

an3drew said...

"A man of no distinction living in
the deserted wasteland"

just a bunch of cliches melded together in pure voynich

congradulations you have a talent :o )

full reply