Saturday, October 01, 2011

JUGGLING (the whole article reposted)

Here is the article I put up on Suicide Girls a few days ago with a little bit of bonus mnaterial at the end:

A guy named Brian who posts on my blog (hardcorezen.blogspot.com) asked:

“I'm wondering how you feel about stories of Zen masters who endured what would normally be insane levels of pain through the discipline of zazen? No doubt some of the stories are fanciful, but we have on video the monk who set himself on fire and didn't flinch until he was dead.

“Do you think you could do that after so many years of sitting or is something missing? Or is that really not the point of zazen, just a type of parlor trick that's cool to know can be done but isn't the primary purpose of meditation?”

Around the same time I got a message from one of my Facebook friends mentioning this video by Ken Wilber:



In case you can’t view it, this is a video of the uber-spiritual wonderman Ken Wilber hooking himself up to a machine that supposedly demonstrates how he can voluntarily stop his brainwaves.

This stuff kind of reminds me of juggling.

When I lived in Santa Monica, I used to walk down to Venice Beach on weekends. There would always be lots of talented people on the boardwalk doing various tricks for chump change from the tourists. One of these guys was a juggler. He was absolutely amazing. He had this trick where he’d climb up on a balance board on top of a top of a rickety wooden ladder and juggle like five butcher’s knives, all while making clever jokes at his own expense. It was astounding. Take a look:



Like most people on the boardwalk, I’d watch his act, be amazed and then put a dollar or two in the bucket he passed around at the end. I was a local, and hence a cheapskate. Maybe the tourists slipped him fives and tens. Or maybe some of them were cheaper than me and just threw in quarters.

I’ve done twenty plus years of daily zazen meditation plus more intensive retreats than I care to remember. Having been through some interesting scenes during practice I can understand how one could use meditation practice to learn to do some pretty impressive tricks. I personally could not sit still while I was on fire and I doubt I could wire myself up to an EEG and make the indicators do whatever I wanted. But I can see clearly how that could be done.

Let me try to explain what I mean by saying I can “see clearly.” It’s like if you learned to juggle three tennis balls. Having done that, you’d be able to understand clearly how you might eventually be able to sit on a balance board on top of a rickety ladder and juggle knives. I’m not talking here about comprehending something intellectually as a concept. Anyone can do that. You’d have to at least accomplish three tennis balls at once before you could truly get a handle on how juggling knives isn’t as superhuman as it seems to people like me who can’t even juggle one tennis ball. There’s a kind of body/mind comprehension that goes beyond just getting something as an idea.

Having understood how you might one day be able to juggle knives on a balance board, you’d have to ask yourself if it was worth it. It would take years of tremendous dedication to accomplish such a trick and you’d have to forgo a lot of other things in life just to devote yourself to the task. So you’d either have to really, really, really, really want to juggle knives. Or else you’d have to have some other motive, like believing that if you could juggle knives on a balance board you might be able to join Cirque du Soleil and make a living at it. Either way, you’d need some kind of motivation.

The problem I have with Ken Wilber, as well as others like him, is all about motivation. Ken Wilber seems to imply that his accomplishments indicate that his meditation is somehow qualitatively better than other peoples’ and that without such accomplishments “something is missing” as Brian my commenter asked. While I admit these accomplishments do indicate a commitment to something, I’m not sure it’s something I’m interested in committing to.

To me, Wilber’s goal in meditation appears to be to get more advanced at it than anyone else in the world and to be known for having done so. It’s very competitive. This assumption appears to be borne out by the comment I received when I said that I thought Wilber’s trick with the brainwave machine looked phony.

“Brad, just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's fake,” said the commenter. True enough. Maybe he actually is going into Nirvikalpa Samadhi, whatever the blazes that is. It might not be a fake. But it’s the “just because you can’t do it” part that’s telling.

Wilber may say he doesn’t intend people to take it this way. But that would be disingenuous. He knows full well people are going to take it this way. The message my commenter got is, “Ken Wilber is a better meditator than Brad Warner.” It’s the kind of message I’m sure most people take away from Wilber’s various demonstrations of power.

If meditation is a competition, I don’t want to play that game. But it’s not. So I meditate.

In the case of those Vietnamese monks who burned themselves, they appear to me to be deeply confused people. When I see that damned video I just get incredibly angry and sad. What a fucking waste. What they did amounted to the most macho display of macho-ism ever. What could be more macho than burning yourself alive and not flinching? The fact that you actually had to die to prove how macho you were just makes you that much more macho.

If what they did had actually made any difference in the war, maybe I’d think differently. Sadly, I don’t think their tragic wasteful ugly deaths did anything to stop the war in Vietnam. They could have done a lot more by staying alive and working for peace.

I’ve seen enough in my own personal practice to be quite convinced that I could do a lot of impressive things with this practice if I wanted to direct my efforts that way. But why would I do so? I can’t think of any compelling reason to pursue such things. It would take a lot of hard, hard effort. It doesn’t seem worthwhile to me at all. I’m not interested in being macho. I don’t need to display my meditative achievements to the world.

Which is not me saying I’m better than those guys because I don’t want these things. It’s just a fact. I don’t have the desire. Being better has nothing to do with it. You can put in all that effort and still end up as confused as anyone else. It looks like a big waste of time to me and I don’t have time to waste.

There is a certain class of people who enjoy bragging about their supposed spiritual accomplishments. They’ve been around for a long time. But the truth is most of us who meditate don’t learn to do tricks. And if we do, we generally keep it to ourselves.

Dogen, the 12th century monk who founded the sect of Buddhism in which I practice (and who was also the loose basis for a character on the TV show LOST), tells a story about people who brag about their spiritual accomplishments:

At that time a certain Sanzo from India arrives in the Chinese capital, saying, “I have attained the eye that intuits the minds of others” (This is supposedly one of the powers of a Buddha). The emperor decrees that the National Master (his personal Zen teacher) should examine him. As soon as Sanzo meets the master he prostrates himself at once and stands to the master’s right. The master says, “Have you got the power to know others’ minds?”

Sanzo answers, “I would not be so bold (as to say so).”

The master says, “Tell me where this old monk is just now.”

Sanzo says, “Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why have you gone to the West River to watch a boat race?”

The master asks a second time, “Tell me where the old monk is just now.”

Sanzo says, “Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are you on Tianjian Bridge watching someone play with a monkey?”

The master asks a third time, “Tell me where the old monk is just now.”

Sanzo takes a good while but he does not know where the master has been. The master scolds him, saying, “You ghost of a wild fox, where is your power to know others’ minds?”

Sanzo has no answer.


Most people interpret this story as saying that the master imagined watching a boat race and Sanzo guessed it, then the master imagined watching a monkey and Sanzo guessed it, then the master put himself in some kind of formless Samadhi (perhaps like the one Ken Wilber supposedly enters in the video) and Sanzo couldn’t see it because he wasn’t as advanced as the master. The master wins and Sanzo loses. One traditional interpretation Dogen sites says, ““The first two times the master’s mind is concerned with external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving and using the self, and so Sanzo does not see him.”

But Dogen begs to differ. It isn’t about what sort of mental states the master enters. And it has nothing at all to do with winning and losing. First off, Dogen points out that the National Master never actually says Sanzo got it right the first two times. Then he goes a little deeper.

Dogen says, “The National Master’s words ‘Where is the old monk just now?’ are as if to ask ‘What is the old monk?’ ‘Where is the old monk just now?’ asks ‘Just now is what kind of moment?’ To ask ‘where is (the old monk)’ asserts that ‘This place is where something ineffable exists.’”

In other words the master is not asking Sanzo to read his mind. He is asking Sanzo to tell him where the real person who stands in front of him in this concrete reality (i.e. the National Master) is right now. He wants Sanzo to tell him what this real world is. He wants to help Sanzo see what is actual.

Sanzo has only succeeded in demonstrating a parlor trick — if, indeed, he has even demonstrated that much. He never gives any indication that he really understands the fundamental nature of reality.

It annoys me to see someone like Ken Wilber who does tricks — ones that nobody can ever even verify he’s accomplished, by the way — make tons more money than that street juggler down on Venice Beach who does something far cooler. I guess people are impressed by imaginary stuff.

I don’t see any great value in most of what passes for “altered states of consciousness.” Every possible state of altered consciousness is contained within this state of consciousness you possess right at this very moment.

It’s true we are evolutionarily developed to filter consciousness in a particular way. And most of us assume that this particular way is the only way available. There are methods by which you can learn to filter your consciousness in different ways. And perhaps there is some minor value in knowing that there are other ways of filtering things. But it’s just another sort of filter. It’s the difference between looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses and looking at the world through green-tinted glasses. You’re not getting the true picture either way.

So maybe Ken Wilber really can trance out on Delta waves. I’m more impressed with the guy who can juggle butcher’s knives on a balance board. Look at both videos. Honestly, which one is more impressive to you?

***

That piece was re-posted by a few people on Facebook. One of the friends of someone who re-posted the piece responded as follows:

If someone is holding themselves out to be a teacher or some kind of adept, I think they should at least be able to do something with an EEG machine. If they can't demonstrate the correlates of at least one of those deeper states, then I don't think they could be said to be adept at any kind of meditation.

There are so many people on the internet claiming enlightenment and claiming non-dual realization, but I think they are referring to many different things, often things not relating to enlightenment or non-duality much at all. It's good to have a way to separate the charlatans from the real McCoys.


I've read this comment a number of times now, and it just baffles me. I'm not sure what to make of it. What's weirder (to me at least) is that a number of other people appear to believe this comment makes sense.

People often ask me how to recognize a good teacher. I'd say that anyone who demonstrates his supposedly deeper mind states by hooking himself to a machine and showing you what the dials say is someone to stay far away from. As for "separat(ing) the charlatans from the real McCoys," such demonstrations would do a tremendous job. Anyone who indulges in them is out to get your money and power.

There seems to be a big push these days to try and find some way to objectively qualify meditation teachers. I've already written extensively about the various organizations that attempt to provide verification of their member teachers. The sentiment expressed above appears to me to be yet another variation of the same general kind of thing.

I really don't even know what to say to this. It's so outside my own means of accessing my teachers that I can't even relate to it. I didn't ask my teachers for test scores or for proof of membership in certain organizations. I just had a feeling. And that's very hard to explain.

I've been reading a book lately called Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking. The introduction tells the story of the Getty Museum purchasing what was purported to be an ancient Greek statue. Every objective test they put the statue to verified its authenticity. The dials all registered what they were supposed to. The spectrometers aligned as they should have. Yet when a few people who knew ancient Greek sculpture intimately through personal experience saw the statue they knew at first glance it was a forgery. And it was.

How did they know? The experts themselves had a hard time articulating it. They just kind of knew.

Trust your intuition folks. Objective facts lie.

226 comments:

1 – 200 of 226   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

looks like you're pointing out the difference between mundane and suprundane in practice. meditation can help you learn how to walk thru walls but that doesn't necessarily get you off the wheel of suffering. i like what you wrote about accomplishments still being in the phenomenal realm. nice post.

1?

mike said...

"Malcome Browne’s image of the burning monk, that would later get him the Pulitzer prize that year, was on news covers around the world including the desk of American President, JFK. When Kennedy saw the image he was heard to remark, "Jesus Christ … This sort of thing has got to stop." Marking the beginning of the end of American support for the Ngo Dinh Diem regime."

That monk made the ultimate sacrifice to help bring attention to the atrocities of the Vietnam war. I do not agree whatsoever that it's about being macho, and think that's a odd interpretation of a monk sacrificing himself in a horrible way to help others. That picture was on magazines around the world, and people understood the message clearly.
The fact that he didn't flinch is secondary and between him and the fire, it was a protest against the Vietnam war. His meditation practice helped him not feel any pain apparently which im sure he and his family are thankful for, kinda like when you had kidney stones and used your mindfulness to avoid the suffering of a necessary situation as stated in your blog last year.

Anonymous said...

Why is there a problem with Mr.
Wilber's mental juggling, when
long term meditators can do that.
Ken has some type of RNAase disorder and spends periods of time
sick in bed meditating.

I don't read anything that he has
written since The Spectrum of
Consciousness, and I would not
give him any money for any product
that he is selling.

Focus on getting around that
balanced ANS dogma, because that
is just as glaring as this brain
wave circus stuff.

Anonymous said...

I just read a book about consciousness and highly recommend it:

Incognito: The secret lives of brains, by David Eagleman (978-0307377333)

Anonymous said...

have you ever heard about focusing?

A way to come into contact with intuitive knowledge through the body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focusing

Brad Warner said...

Mike, I'm sure that monk felt a hell of a lot of pain. He just didn't flinch at it.

It still strikes me as an incredibly fucked up thing to do.

He burned himself and later on the Vietnam War ended. But I don't think you can draw a clear line of cause and effect. Bob Dylan sang songs denouncing the war and later on the war ended. Did Dylan's songs end the war?

I believe we have to be careful what we admire and why we admire it. I, for one, do not admire that monk's actions at all.

Brad Warner said...

Why is there a problem with Mr.
Wilber's mental juggling, when
long term meditators can do that.


The problem I have is when one's ability to do mental tricks is held as an objective standard of the quality of meditation. I quoted Dogen's response to the same sort of thing to illustrate how he saw it.

(Not So) Newbie said...

Just back from the local bookstore where I ordered William Gass's ON BEING BLUE, and REALIZING GENJOKOAN by S. Okumura (thank you Brad and others a blog or so back who recommended this).

I was pretty sad looking at the philosophy/religion section since the Buddhist book section has dwindled down from an entire bookcase-full to about a shelf-and-a-half.

There were two copies of Hardcore Zen and one of Sit Down and Shut Up. I bought Zen Wrapped..etc. there but have never seen the last one, I wonder if the distribution didn't cover the sticks, or maybe the title scared 'em off?

Speaking of books, I remember reading, and enjoying Ken Wilbur's NO BOUNDARY in the very early 1980's, but his work after just wasn't that interesting.

mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mike said...

Yeah, you can't see a direct link between the burning monk and the end of the war (who made that claim?) because no one event caused the end of the war. Many events caused the Vietnam war to end which fall under the umbrella of "The anti war movement", and the burning monks picture was a part of that. Reference my quote in my OP, or do a bit of research. That picture reverberated around the world, and not because people said "He look how macho that monk thinks he is because he's not flinching" That's like saying Ghandi was trying to impress other Yogis by going on a hunger strike to end British occupation of India

Yes, Of course it was a F'ed up thing to do, but when 10s of thousands of people are being burned alive by napalm and such, the man did what he thought was best. Many great people throughout history have put their life on the lines to help other, and I respect that. MLK didn't kill himself to further the civil right movement, but he knew hiss life was in danger due to his actions.

You're right that he defiantly felt the pain, but years of Zazen can help to perceive in a less "painful" way.

Thanks for your writing and always enjoy your blog brad!

Anonymous said...

"Wilber's description of enlightenment as "sahaj samadhi" derives primarly from Da, who in turn appropriates the term from the writings of Ramana Maharshi. For Da, "sahaj samadhi" denotes a non-exclusory samadhi, i.e., a samadhi that does not "discriminate" the contents of consciousness from consciousness itself. Rather, in "sahaj samadhi" the contents of consciousness are seen as manifestations - "arisings," as he calls them - of consciousness itself. Compare Wilber's description of "non-dual mysticism":


"To experience oneness with all phenomena arising in gross, subtle and causal states is a typical non-dual mysticism." Integral Spirituality, p. 93.

It's sort of like a small clear
bag of water that is thrown into
the ocean and no longer has a
sense of itself.

But I guess if there were no
longer the slightest vestige of
awareness, but just awareness itself,
there wouldn't be any need to
wipe your ass, or do tricks with
the brain wave machine.

Fred

Jungle Jim said...

I think you're reading more into it than is there.

You could be correct that Wilber put that video there to gain power over people, but it is speculation.

I, personally, saw it as very much innocent. Why shouldn't he put a video on the internet of him consciously altering his brain states?

It neither impressed me, or troubled me. I saw it as a mere curiousity.

That could be down to my own naivete though. Honestly. I notice that most people seem to be much more cynical about the intentions of others than I am.

an3drew said...

i personally think zen is indifferent to war

it's normal for normative reality

zen

is

about

individual

reality

an3drew said...

ken wilber is a wanker, that bullshit he waffles that psuedo-philosophical nonsense, it amazes me there is any market for it but i have long learnt that the public taste is for untruths and nonsense !

an3drew said...

i think the thing about ken wilber is he validates some treacherous dangerous people like andrew cohen the late adi da and the on the make genpo merzel

he's

not

particularly

dangerous himself

but

why

he

gives

the

time
of

day
to
these

treacherous

public

threats
i

don't

know

except

he's

a
twit !

Anonymous said...

reality

is

zen

an3drew said...

reality is
with the human evolutionary make up there is always going to be war, we are a very aggressive species

Korey said...

Bradley, what is your thoughts on Anton lavey and the Church of Satan?

an3drew said...

lol
a

satanist

who

dies

in
a

catholic

hospital

was

the

exorcist

asleep ?

Khru said...

This is probably the worst comment thread I've ever seen on Bradley's blog...

Korey said...

An3drew, your post doesn't apply to Laveyan Satanism. The excorcist? Laveyan Satanists to not believe in a Gor, or devil, or anything supernatural for that matter. Just shut the fuck up and keep your nose out of shit if you don't know what the fuck you're tlakibng about you cowardly pussy and quit running your mouth behind a computer screen you blind fool

Fish said...

Brad, I read "Blink" about a year ago and I remember that story about the kouros forgery. What the book went on to say (and what I thought was cool) was that just like repeated physical motion like throwing a ball or maintaining a straight back in zazen, was that the ability of the experts to know right away that the statue was a fake was due to experience. They had seen so many of these statues (and so many fakes) that their brains did that work without having to consciously analyze it.

You wrote about how you got a "feeling" with your teachers. I think to a large extent, people know what they're getting into when they take someone on as their teacher, or in many cases, an authority figure. The brain is so well practiced at making quick judgements of people. I know that lots of times I've met someone who toted themselves as a "spiritual teacher" I got a huge case of the heebie-jeebies.

I guess my point is that when you talk about the feeling you get when you find a good teacher, some people may not get the other side, that one of the most important things to remember is that not all those feelings are good, and if someone makes you feel uncomfortable when you first meet them, it's probably not because of their spiritual attainment. It's probably because they're being creepy.

an3drew said...

if you do your research you will see its the usual religious double talk, the practical reality is they are occultists

they carry out black masses for gods sake !

one of us is a blind fool : o )

Petra said...

Hi Brad,

I tried to find out what meditation you practice since what you wrote sounded very non-bullshit like. On your how to do zazen page I read:

"Sitting immovably in the mountain-still state, "Think about this concrete state beyond thinking." "How can the state beyond thinking be thought about?" "It is different from thinking."  This is just the pivot of Zazen."

I have no idea what you mean with that, can you explain in common language what you mean with that?

Thanks and greetings,

Petra

Korey said...

What exactly is a "black mass"? Do you understand the purpose of rituals done by the CoS?

Regardless, it's irrelevant in the first place. I was pointing out how you mentioned an exorcist, implying that a Satanist is under some sort of possession by an entity of some sort (and if that's not what you meant, please explain). Meanwhile if you knew anything about Laveyan Satanism and what they believe or profess, you wouldn't have said anything of the sort. Now my question is, why did you mention exorcism? And don't change the subject either. Why did you say it?

an3drew said...

the getty kouros forgery is interesting

pure voynichese

very cleverly crafted

a fake

being

taken

as

real

so

real

it's

still
hard

to

tell !

Anonymous said...

Turn it in, fool!!

an3drew said...

cause it's the usual contradictory bullshit that is religion

like christianities burning of heretics

yet going on about the crucified one

satanism is just a cover for group sex

exorcism is voynichese, that is i'ts not real but fake but in some contexts passes as real

Korey said...

"satanism is just a cover for group sex"

hahaha, alright, good to go. You haven't got a clue.

an3drew said...

Turn it in, fool!!


:

o

(

)

Anonymous said...

Petra the state beyond thinking
cannot be thought. Thinking is the
plastic bag between the water in the bag and the ocean it was thrown into.

Fred

Korey said...

So in one week on October 1, I will be engaging in a ceremonial ritual to celebrate the arrival of autumn; an annual time that has historically proven to be very magical and spiritual for me. It marks an important time of deep introspection and spiritual growth, as well as the countdown to Samhain. I have dubbed the ceremony that will take place that night "The Hour of Resprisal". It will consist of the lighting of candles and incense in ceremonial fashion while playing Jedi Mind Trick's debut album The Psycho-Social, Chemical, Biological and Electro-Magnetic Manipulation of Human Counsiousness from start to finish, followed by a short period of silent contemplation.

Penny for the guy said...

Preposterous ninny, I've never heard such flim flam. Zen indeed!

an3drew said...

""satanism is just a cover for group sex"

hahaha, alright, good to go. You haven't got a clue."

so

you

are

a

satanist

tell

us

about

it

sorry

you
are

missing

out

of

the

group

sex

but

as

you

"rise"

in

the

hierarchy...

Korey said...

Quote the part when i said i was a Satanist.

an3drew said...

"Petra the state beyond thinking
cannot be thought. Thinking is the
plastic bag between the water in the bag and the ocean it was thrown into."

i don't know why zen demonizes thinking, the problem is not thinking but that it's done badly and inaccurately

i think this "anti-thinking" is a japanese emphasis used as a crowd management technique to control monasteries of unruly monks !

eihei dogen's works are full of thinking he slowly corrects as he gets older !

the great mystery no-one seems to understand is that you can see directly the ocean but it's only occasional and most of life is somewhat alienated, what you might call practice is being open in that alienantion !

there is no "way" which is the great fiction of those who have never seen the ocean deeply enough

Anonymous said...

Arse-water

an3drew said...

if you are not a satanist you haven't seen behind the doors and are like me "gullible"

this trait can actually be quite good because you are more open but its a deceitful world !

Korey said...

You're mistaken

an3drew said...

"Arse-water"

anonymous posting, be someone in zen who has never seen it or you wouldn't speak that way

what are you doing in zen if you don't believe in the possibility of directly seeing buddha !

when

i

was

first

involved

in

zen

i read the blue

cliff

record

and

had

trouble

understanding

it

i looked

at

the

stars

and

knew

it

was

something
to

do

with

that

and
that's

where

i

started

i
live

by

myself

in
the
country

and

some

nights

those

stars

just

BLAZE

down

an3drew said...

"You're mistaken"

the whole point of posting and writing is to correct and develop thinking, just reacting with views about ourself does nothing

kristien said...

“Maybe he actually is going into Nirvikalpa Samadhi, whatever the blazes that is”
“Nirvikalpa Samadhi” literally means “ Meditative ecstasy without form”, or “ deep meditative concentration (or absorption) in which there is no perception of form (or defined experiental content.)”
If Ken wilber claims his meditative state to be Nirvikalpa Samadhi, he proves himself to be very deluded.
How can he move willfully in and out a state where there is no form at all? Where there is no body ,where there is no mind. All perceptions are vanished... What brings him back to his ordinary awarenss, so that he continues his demonstrations with his machine?
Yes , he can manipulate brain waves, and the subtle energies are conked out. But that does not mean he is in samadhi ..
Consider for a moment the apparent absence of body movement in someone who is asleep. We all can stop moving the body for a while, but that does not mean we are in deep sleep. So, stopping the body movements is not the same as sleeping. . so it is with stopping your brain waves from acting up, it does not mean one is in samadhi... But hey (!) it is an unusual accomplishment, yes a good trick, indeed. But that is all.

Anonymous said...

I don't think that the monk immolating himself helped end the war. He did that in 1963. The war went on for another 12 years or so. In fact, it got a lot worse for a long time after.

Anonymous said...

Possibility and Uncertainty...

Brother, can you spare 1.5Gs?

Zenleo said...

Hi Brad, hope things are going well on your health issues. Meanwhile I hardly think the brain-wave machines are objective fact, also my intuition has been dead wrong before, normally when it comes to women, but other things as well. I think I would go on "Common Sense" in this entire teacher good/bad topic. Of course if one is lacking in common Sense....

Cheers... Dale

Matt Koogler said...

Re: "objective"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

We are pretty incredible creatures, and we need precious few clues to pick up stuff.

Anonymous said...

Just get over it.

boondock jewess said...

Oh my G-d. Your posts are so long.

I'm just impressed, really. My posts are short.

Apparently I'm missing something.

Anonymous said...

People can get into trance in order
to not feel pain.

hypnosis for pain relief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYpc8FAb64

proulx michel said...

mike said...

"Malcome Browne’s image of the burning monk, that would later get him the Pulitzer prize that year, was on news covers around the world including the desk of American President, JFK. When Kennedy saw the image he was heard to remark, "Jesus Christ … This sort of thing has got to stop." Marking the beginning of the end of American support for the Ngo Dinh Diem regime."

Actually, the burning wasn't really against the atrocities of the Vietnam War, but against the persecutions against Buddhism staged by the (catholic) Ngo Dinh Diem regime. Albeit it doesn't change much to the deed...

Anonymous said...

" That shit makes even the Buddha rage "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkltrgUPWVs&feature=channel_video_title

Anonymous said...

Korey is fat, lives in mom's basement, wears thick glasses, has never kissed a girl, and plays way too many hours of World Of Warcraft.

Get a life kid.

Anonymous said...

an3drew now takes Mysterion's place as most annoying blog poster.

Sinh said...

"If what they did had actually made any difference in the war, maybe I’d think differently. Sadly, I don’t think their tragic wasteful ugly deaths did anything to stop the war in Vietnam. They could have done a lot more by staying alive and working for peace."

The monks were rural people living in Indochina in the mid 60's. They had limited resourses. They made the sacrifice to try and save the lives of other people and I think they were sucessful. I think you do not understand the effect they had on ending the war in Vietnam.

Anonymous said...

"An3drew, your post doesn't apply to Laveyan Satanism. The excorcist? Laveyan Satanists to not believe in a Gor, or devil, or anything supernatural for that matter. Just shut the fuck up and keep your nose out of shit if you don't know what the fuck you're tlakibng about you cowardly pussy and quit running your mouth behind a computer screen you blind fool"

The troll got to you.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfxYowv42Kk&feature=related

Gudo

Anonymous said...

Gudo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W21GIhTgEo4&NR=1

Anonymous said...

And the #1 reason Wilber's a joke
is he bought Adi Da's dog and pony
show, hook line and sinker.

Korey said...

Anonymous...

Nah, really, that's all I got to say. You make fuckin insults behind a computer screen but don't have the balls to show your real name you pussy? You're probably some old fuck

Anonymous said...

soldiers and self-immolating monks. Brad is grateful for one group and thinks the other is too macho.

Anonymous said...

Thumbs up, Brad! Thanks!

Anonymous said...

You can buy an EEG machine and
through neurofeedback teach your
brain to do what Ken Wilber is
doing. You can do this without
reading any books on meditative
techniques, Buddhism, Dogen, Yoga,
Adi Da.

Adi Da drank at least 40 shots of
alcohol a day, took drugs and
fornicated with the women in his
cult.

Anonymous said...

Korey, if you wanna join the Church of Satan just so you have an explanation for slutboy anal sex, you're the pussy. And everyone knows that submission to the satanist priest includes getting your black cherry popped. Go smoke some dope boy, your mama is calling. She got KFC on the table tonight.

Anonymous said...

Monkeys meditate for marshmallows

What would the Buddha have said? Monkeys have been trained to put themselves into a Zen-like trance – but out of desire for marshmallows rather than enlightenment.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20989-monkeys-meditate-for-marshmallows.html

Korey said...

"Korey, if you wanna join the Church of Satan just so you have an explanation for slutboy anal sex, you're the pussy."

Can you find the quote where I said that? I can't seem to find it. But damn are you ever a coward making racist remarks behind an "anonymous" screen name bahahaha

Deckard said...

Screw mandatory EEG lets stuff these enlightened guys into a fMRI to get the real deal... better yet lets hook them up to a voight-kampff machine.

cormorant said...

This Ken Wilbur thing gets to the crux of why buddhism (and meditation in general) are still fringe activities in the west.

This may sound pompous, but unless one has spent a fair amount of time outside of Europe and North America, it's really hard to grasp the conceptual framework used in buddhist practice.

In the "west", (and America in particular) the default setting is self-interest. If one is interested in Zen, or anything really, the first question one asks is "What do I get out of it? Will it make me richer/healthier/more attractive etc?"

This is totally natural to us. We have been so indoctrinated with this concept of self profit, that we believe it's a universal truth, as opposed to being merely another aspect of the human condition.

Then we are stunned when people willingly fly planes into skyscrapers or set themselves on fire. As far as we are concerned, only crazy people do this. What was in it for them?

With zen, "you" get absolutely nothing out of it. You come to practice looking for ways to harden and protect this fantasy projection called "I", but a good guide will not give you anything.

IMO, people who are attracted to zen in the West feel deep down that something is not right: we "feel" that we have turned our culture into a hologram of reality, but we don't have the apparatus or language to express it.

We cannot conceptualise a different way of being, so it makes sense when people start turning meditative techniques into competitive one-upmanship. Why WOULDN'T any sensible person not make money out of their abilities?
That's the criterion for success, right?

Doug said...

Hi Brad,

A great article but I have to take issue with your comments about the self-immolation incidents in South Vietnam. I happened to get my degree in Vietnam studies* and am somewhat familiar with the subject.

Without droning on too much, please be aware that there were some factual errors in your article, but more importantly please try to put yourself in your shoes. I can't imagine they did it for macho reasons as you contend, though I admit I can only guess at what ran through their minds when they made the decision to do it.

Although I am not a particular fan of Thich Nhat Hanh, he does offer some anecdotal insights in his encounters with some of these people and who they were in general. I found the anecdotes helpful for what it's worth.

In summary, one shouldn't criticize something they are not familiar with. Comparing such monks to a self-absorbed "guru" like Ken Wilbur wasn't the best example to use.

* - As to why I'd major in something like that in college, it was one of those things that made sense at 20. ;-p

Anonymous said...

People have always done dumb shit since the beginning of time. It's your "self" nature. Setting yourself on fire, flying an airplane into a building, "allowing" the Romans to arrest and then crucify you...etc. All activities to exemplify the so-called ego.

Beyond survival (eating, shitting, fucking), NOTHING matters.

Disagree with this and you're lying to yourself.

Anonymous said...

"Beyond survival (eating, shitting, fucking), NOTHING matters.

Disagree with this and you're lying to yourself"

Then why post, fool!

Anonymous said...

it doesn't matter if you disagree, but it does if you lie

Anonymous said...

it doesn't matter if you lie, but it does if you disagree

Anonymous said...

Fucking is survival?

Don't put so much pressure on your lovers. It can be fun too.

Or are you a selfish gene?

Anonymous said...

I think when a student looks for a teacher they should be looking for skills that they want to acquire for their self. So if a person wants to be able to control their brain waves or make donkeys invisible that is the type of teacher they should seek out. If a person wants to have a better understanding of their self and their actions they should seek out a teacher who has that.

Anonymous said...

Kung Fu Panda The Secret Ingredient

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY12ELBQhQ4&feature=related

an3drew said...

this is what it is about

charles bukowski, leaves zen for dead


as i said you have to blinker yourself to writers like him for zen to make sense


celine is another, heraclitus is another etc etc


people in mass are obscene grasping morons, the “hardcore zen” blog/board exemplifies that except that in their moronacy they grasp hot coals that damage them

an3drew said...

to put a clickable link in just sandwhich the url between [a href="url here"]what you call the link here[/b] (replace [ and ] with < and > , necessary in this illustration to stop the browser interpreting what i wrote as html!)

[a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA1f4E9otRs"]a gone[/a]


  a gone


there you are, you have written html, welcome to the 21st century!

Anonymous said...

morons... that's said with compassion for ignorance right?

is there any hatred in that sentence?

an3drew said...

"kung fu panda the secret ingredient"

"nothing" has to be crafted, just like everything else

the

question is wether you end up with the real thing or a facsimile


this


has


always


been


a

problem


in


zen


and


is


called


“ living


in
a


ghost


cave ”


it


is


by


far


the


norm


since


we


are


all

born


into


one


anyway !


voynich


facsimile

an3drew said...

"morons... that's said with compassion for ignorance right?

is there any hatred in that sentence?"

yup

firstly i don't exlude myself

secondly it's true

it's the wilful ignorance like your comment that gets my goat !

an3drew said...

if you are avoiding understanding then listen to a gone what is it about ?

was larry eigner enlightened or a zen master or what, he wouldn't have recognised those terms !

he

sure
sat alot because he was confined to a wheel chair and vaccine damaged at birth !

how does being damaged fit in?

Anonymous said...

Brad,
Will there be any more new Dogen Sangha videos on youtube?

Anonymous said...

an3drew, I really like the blog you have here. You attract many interesting comments. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Andrew take your manic meds, so we
don't have to scroll by your vapid
drivel. And then gently caress
yourself.

Brad Warner said...

Doug,

Thank you for your comments.

I realize I am reducing what that monk did to a single aspect -- its macho-ness. I am sure there was a lot more to it than that. Nobody kills themselves solely to prove how macho they are.

I also appreciate Michel's comments that the act was not so much in protest of the war as in protest of the Vietnamese gov't's pro-Christian stance.

I think most contemporary people are, like me, pretty ignorant about what actually happened. I, for one, had always thought (as I know many others did) that the burnings happened in the late 60s or early 70s at a time when the war was full-on and the US was deeply involved. I was surprised to learn that this was not the case.

I'm not so much criticising the monk himself. It wouldn't matter if I did. He's long dead and won't read what I say.

I am criticising the way contemporary people romanticise what that monk did. People always romanticize suicide. It is not romantic or beautiful ever.

Brad

Mysterion said...

Managing pain... and perception.

First, and foremost, Zen does not sell itself on how it slices and dices - like Veg-O-Matic.

Part of pain management is tolerance - kinda like puttin' up with fundies and evangelicals.

Mysterion said...

What the monk did in Vietnam (back in 1963) is PROTEST the senseless violence.

Life became such a living hell for villagers that he wanted to "bring home" just what burning a human was like.

Why Gen Xers didn't take to the streets over Iraq like Boomers did in the 60s over Vietnam is a mystery to me.

There was no beauty about any of it. This is the nature of suffering.

Anonymous said...

Well old man, what Gudo said was
what is real is action at the
present moment at this place.

Can that be extended to present
moments that are not zazen?

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I read the comments here and it seems like several people are telling "The Aristocrats" joke at the same time. So please allow me to write the punchline:

The Aristocrats!

an3drew said...

"Andrew take your manic meds, so we
don't have to scroll by your vapid
drivel. And then gently caress
yourself."

if they were manic then they wouldn't be vapid would they

and

they
aren't

and

i

can

be

manic !

it's

not

that

they

are

drivel

but
they
show

you

up
to

yourself

which

is
what

upsets

you !

an3drew said...

Gilbert Gottfried Aristocrats joke

first time i have come across it !

an3drew said...

the

words

tof

larry

eigner's

“ a

gone ”

since

i

seem

to

be

the

only

one

here

capable

of

using

a

search

engine !

(ed. "tof" is a portmanteau of "to" and "of"

off

to

eat

my

wallaby

brains !

gutting at

4am

in

freezing

weather

but

a

beautiful

star

filled night !

an3drew said...

We need and deserve a man who kills animals on a parcel of land that he refers to as, "Niggerhead."

an3drew said...

hunting

guru's

hunt

disciples!

what

do

they

get ?

cats !

an3drew said...

another fake an3drew, without the orange small "b"

i'm not american and that niggerhead comment would have gone past me except i searched and came up with governor perry's hunting camp

i will point out that unlike some buddhism that zen is quite ok with eating meat and the 6th patriarch spent the greater portion of his life as a hunter

zen is a fusion of buddhism and taoism, i think it needs to remember it's taoist roots sometimes

wallabies are at pest levels where i live and need culling !

i really don't like to kill what i don't eat so am about to tuck into wallaby brains, testicles and thyroid !

an3drew said...

i use solid copper bullets, that is "lead free", good for the enviroment and no lead to poison you if you eat what you shoot !

they also usually kill the animal immediately if they are big enough because of their extreme cutting action after they open

i eat the offal of what i shoot because that is what humans are evolutionarily designed to eat and our health and brains is below par without it !

what we

call meat is just one part of the carcass and not the most nutritionally premium !

humans are not meant to be as stupid as they are !

it's the modern diet !

the chinese are much more into this, and its easy to see why the
6th patriarch was such an intellectual giant!

Anonymous said...

yo an3drew!

was checking out your website.
photo of where you live is beautiful.
lucky you!

Doug said...

Hi Brad,

Thanks for taking the time to respond amidst the comment "noise". :)

I definite take your point about suicide. I once had a close encounter with a suicide years ago while living in Ireland, when a man jumped in front of the train I was riding on and killed himself. I wrote about it on an older version of the blog, and coincidentally it was read by a friend of the deceased who talked about how senseless it was. Though I never knew the person myself, I couldn't deny it was hard even for me to deal with.

With that said, I agree that martyrdom is a tricky subject, and nothing to romanticize. However, suicide and self-sacrifice are not necessarily the same thing. Suicide has a selfish, depressed connotation while self-sacrifice can be noble.

I don't want to romanticize his actions either, but I believe he was sincere in his intentions to draw attention to the plight of his people before the world. History and hindsight may judge whether it was effective or not (indeed Madame Nhu's reaction to his burning with a joke about "barbecues" was extremely cold-hearted).

But I think the real tragedy is that life under the (US-backed) Diem (pronounced "Ziem") regime was bad enough that people felt this was the only effective means left.

While studying in college I saw a film recorded by an American journalist that showed the execution famous photographed here:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Nguyen.jpg

Besides the photo, another journalist filmed the execution, and it was the first time I had ever seen someone shot in the head. For real, not in a movie. It chills me to think about it now, 11 years later.

Life had little value in Vietnam at the time, and that was a tragedy. So I may not necessarily agree with the monk's decision to burn himself, under those circumstances, I can understand at least.

When I see the war footage from the time like this:

http://youtu.be/otdYYtpN36Q

It makes me realize how comical and insignificant the Ken Wilburs and the Gempos of the world really are.

Sorry for the long post, but one other thing came to mind. In the 22nd chapter of the Lotus Sutra, there is a big long story of the Bodhisattva Medicine King burns himself as an offering to the Dharma, which seems to advocate self-immolation in Buddhism, but I read Thich Nhat Hanh's commentaries (which were quite good compared to his other works), and I think the lesson of the 22nd chapter was one of determination and working for a greater cause than oneself.

A Japanese "bath-house geisha" wrote a tragic memoir about her struggle with suicide and depression, which I touched upon here:

http://japanlifeandreligion.com/2009/05/26/overcoming-misery/

The lesson from that chapter was that the more people think about themselves, the more miserable they are, but when they work for the welfare of others they gain so much more. This can be something as simple as donating blood, donating groceries, or even picking up litter around the neighborhood, but I think the takeaway from the Bodhisattva Medicine King's story was just that (albeit in very dramatic terms).

Anyhow, sorry for the long reply, but I appreciated your response. :)

Doug said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
an3drew said...

"a word for nothing", reading by larry eigner

one

of

the

great

american

poets

and

the
most
zen

like

along

with

emily

dickinson

Doug said...

P.S. If you're looking for a good read, Bao Ninh's book "The Sorrow of War: A Novel of North Vietnam" is highly recommended. It's hard to find memoirs about the soldiers in Northern Vietnam, and the trauma of the soldiers (North and South) was not easily erased.

(previously posted under wrong account)

Doug said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Doug said...

Hm, I think my earlier comment got eaten by the Internets, but thanks for taking the time to respond, Brad. I appreciate it. :)

Anyhow, I agree with your comments, but when I see the old war footage at the time, I feel I can understand the monk's actions. I may not agree with them but I can understand.

I once saw in college a film by an American journalist, and it showed the execution by the infamous police chief of Saigon, Nguyen Ngoc Loan:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Nguyen.jpg

What I saw in college wasn't the photo, but the actual film of the execution. It was really chilling to watch and still hard to think about 11 years later.

What it told me was that life had no value at the time in Vietnam, and that was truly a tragedy. The monk under such circumstances may have felt no recourse was left but to draw attention to the conflict the only way he knew how. Hindsight and history may judge his actions differently, but I felt he was sincere in his efforts.

But you're right in that suicide is nothing to glorify at all. I read about all the schoolkids who kill themselves in South Korea over the pressure to succeed and it's very sad. I feel though that self-sacrifice and suicide are not the same thing, with one having noble intentions and the other being inherently selfish.

Sorry if this is a duplicate of the previous post. :p

P.S. When I see such things, I feel the Ken Wilburs and Gempos of the world are comically insignificant. :-/

Jeff said...

Brad, are you no longer moderating the comments here? If so that's kind of a shame to be honest. There's some worthwhile insights to be found from various posters here, but such comments are getting buried under a mountain of bullshit.

Soft Troll said...

An3drew

Have you considered setting up blogs specifically for your views on poetry and zen?

You write with a huge amount of energy and conviction, and have so much to say it could easily fill two blogs. I notice that you are also have a keen and controversial interest in certain medical subjects which could be the focus of a third blog.

I'm sure I would be interested in reading and responding to what you had to say about poetry, on such a blog.

It seems a shame that you use up so much of your creative energies on comments sections and forums where the stridency, style and sheer amount of posts etc have lead you to being ostracised or being banned from many other forums and comments sections.

In smaller doses I think that your posts would cause less problems for others and also lead some to engage with you on your own blogs, if they were linked in your profile.

The comments section seems like it's got an overdose of heavy metal in the blood stream at the moment and it would be a sad if this resulted in enforced chelation!

Hope the Wallaby went down well.

Soft Troll said...

We paused before a House that seemed
A Swelling of the Ground –
The Roof was scarcely visible –
The Cornice – in the Ground –

an3drew said...

soft troll if you click on my name, there's a web page link !

you got a good version of emily dickinsons poems

it can be quite startling to read her poems in her own handwriting!

like emily dickinson i write for eternity so have my writings up on my own page, the trouble with blogs is the material can disappear, you have no control over it !

what i have found is you really write just for yourself to sort out one's thinking, wether many or few or even none read i don't care

an3drew said...

jeff ; congratulations on having some sort of web identity ! can i ask if you are vegetarian, your skin colour seems quite pale , even anemic, or perhaps that's just northern illinois ?

Soft Troll said...

An3drew

When I mentioned setting up blogs, I meant in addition to your website.

After all your contributions here, as with other blog comments sections and forums, is a writing contribution to a perhaps less permanent blog than your own website.

Indeed, you could take what you wrote from those blogs that you wanted to keep for posterity and put them somewhere more permanently available.

But as I said, separate blogs, on the topics you write about here, in other places, or in your website, could provide a more focused and productive outlet for your energies and engender more interesting dialogue.

It just seem to me that you might be trying to get too much out writing in one place or platform.

There sat down, once, a thing on Henry's heart
SO heavy, if he had a hundred years
& more, & weeping, sleepless, in all them time
Henry could not make good.
Starts again always in Henry's ears
the little cough somewhere, an odour, a chime

Anonymous said...

Yes, Mr. Soft Troll, but a Hard
Troll needs lots and lots of
attention. Perhaps Mr. An3drew
has a prion brain disease from
all the offal he has consumed, but
I suspect Asperger's.

proulx michel said...

Brad Warner said...

I also appreciate Michel's comments that the act was not so much in protest of the war as in protest of the Vietnamese gov't's pro-Christian stance.

Hmmm. To my mind, (in a linguistic fashion, anyway) a "pro-Christian stance" is not exactly the same as reckless persecution against Buddhism.

But, of course, in the reality of facts, a "pro-christian stance" can only be the reckless persecution of dissenting opinions...

proulx michel said...

an3drew said...

celine is another,

I'm not sure that citing a rabid antisemit (even though praised as a great writer, but I won't take the trouble of checking out by myself) is a good example of what Zen ought to be.

people in mass are obscene grasping morons, the “hardcore zen” blog/board exemplifies that except that in their moronacy they grasp hot coals that damage them

Jean-Claude Michéa, a Montpellier philosopher who is the authority upon George Orwell, just wrote this week the following:


"It is very ill perceived, in the official media world (be they right or left), to celebrate the decency of common people or the capacity of the people to govern themselves directly. This would be, accordingly, a "rousseauist" illusion and, at the worst, populist ideas, "of which we only too well know where they lead". It is nonetheless curious that the zealous media personel never thinks of applying to the elites themselves its negative anthropology. They always seem to take for granted that those who govern us -- or the World Bank, the MIF or the UNO -- are admirable individuals who strive in every circumstance to do their duty as well as they can."

Anonymous said...

The 10% that controls 70% of the
U.S. wealth could care less
about the common man. The politicians are bought by campaign
donations and the media is owned by
corporations.

Dieing for an ideal in an attempt
to influence a world that is in
constant permutation is utter
nonsense. Study the self to forget
the self.

Fred

an3drew said...

proulx michel,

are you are aware of zen's role in the massacre of nanking and the general brutality japaneses approach in ww2 ?

"the sword that kills is the sword that gives life" and that sort of duplicitous crap !"

a lot of the prominent japanese lineages in the usa have this descent taint and are not worth a sh*t imo

celine like the rest of us is uneven, goethe was also anti semetic

you can admire their work without repeating thier mistakes !

i think you claim some sort of zen lineage, whats in that one? care to look?

Soft Troll said...

Mr 5:05am:

I'm aware that An3drew is somewhere on the autistic spectrum - he talks about it on his website. I'm somewhere on some spectrum too, I suppose.

Anonymous said...

That explains the domination of the comments section here.
Asperger syndrome ftw.

Mysterion said...

10% control 70%

That was 30 years ago. Things chance. 1% control 93% and 1/10th of 1% control 70% today. Reaganomics at work.

Don't worry about wealth, you will never have any.

It's easier to give up that which you never had to begin with.

~riverflow said...

When Bankei was preaching at Ryumon temple, a Shinshu priest, who believed in salvation through repetition of the name of the Buddha of Love, was jealous of his large audience and wanted to debate with him.

Bankei was in the midst of a talk when the priest appeared, but the fellow made such a disturbance that Bankei stopped his discourse and asked about the noise.

"The founder of our sect," boasted the priest, "had such miraculous powers that he held a brush in his hand on one bank of the river, his attendant held up a paper on the other bank, and the teacher wrote the holy name of Amida through the air. Can you do such a wonderful thing?"

Bankei replied lightly: "Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but that is not the manner of Zen. My miracle is that when I feel hungry I eat, and when I feel thirsty I drink."

Benkei said...

Lawrence M. Krauss, a cosmologist at Arizona State University said, “The discovery that the universe is dominated by the energy of empty space has changed everything in cosmology. Nothing could, literally, not be more exciting, because now we know nothing is almost everything!


















source

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Mysterion has become thoughtful about how he used to spam this blog now that he has to put up with An3drew's commentary diarrhea?

"Aww, they're just lonely loners with nothing but time on their hands." -Captive Audience*

*I, for one, am leaving instead of wading through any more of this insufferable drivel. Looks like several others have as well. Bye.

Mysterion said...

Anonymous said...
"I wonder if Mysterion has become thoughtful about how he used to spam this blog..."

Do you mean mindful?

The answer is no.

I sometimes reflectively consider how a little extra information might inform (I dare not say educate) the uninformed (I dare not say uneducated).

Otherwise, I live in the moment. I comment on the moment in which I live.

You should try it sometime for yourself.

Anonymous said...

"The Prion Protein helix 2 sequences varied among species but the Cu-anchoring H residue is highly conserved in various mammals such as mouse, bovine, ovine, tammar wallaby, brush-tailed possum, and Brazilian opossum."

Keep eating those Wallaby brains,
An3drew.

Anonymous said...

Mysti, I can't speak for the anonymous who posted that, but for me it is thoughtful as in reflective, reviewing actions and considering their effect on others.

Rather than self-indulgently assuming that whatever is on your mind at the moment is of interest to the rest of us.

I'd say it's 10% of the time interesting to a few, 70% of the time, not so much.

Thakur said...

Hare Krishna

Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna

Hare Hare

Hare Rama

Hare Rama

Rama Rama

Hare Hare

Anonymous said...

and 20% just don't care at all.

Anonymous said...

Actually I like your stuff
Mysterion, and I am impressed that
you have a Masters in Cognitive
Psych and that you were a
reporter who covered breaking news.
But it's my ego that likes that,
and I'm suppose to transcend it.

Fred

Anonymous said...

Levitt broke it down like this: According to Dogen, “the world is the function of intimacy, which is way beyond being close. Intimacy is thoroughness, completeness, being drenched [in everything], all-inclusiveness. There’s no gap” between anything, ever. You and the person next to you on the subway, the mountains and the sea, an incipient story and the blank page are all one. He argued that when we understand life moving together in this way, then we feel the warmth of all creation because everything is more than just part of us: it is us. No gap. No separation. He said we must be courageous “to come closer"

an3drew said...

"The Prion Protein helix 2 sequences varied among species but the Cu-anchoring H residue is highly conserved in various mammals such as mouse, bovine, ovine, tammar wallaby, brush-tailed possum, and Brazilian opossum'

right, thats this study !

thanks for that, reading it, as far as i can see wallaby is no worse than sheep or cow and it's a brain mechanism, the brain has non disease forming prions as part of it's molecular function !

that
is

there's non disease forming prions naturally in the brain.

as regards disease forming prions australia and new zealand have no known prion diseases

you

do

have

prion

disease

in

some wildlife in the usa, what the situation is for sheep and cattle i do not know

most new zealand lamb brains are exported to france where they seem to munch quite happily on them !

--------------

"Studies have proposed two opposing roles for copper-bound forms of prion protein (PrP) as an anti-oxidant supporting the neuronal functions and as a pro-oxidant leading to neurodegenerative process involving the generation of reactive oxygen species."

so the study is about the copper binding ROS/superoxide generation
by infectious prions

incidently there is speculation that alzheimers is in fact caused by an infectious prion or prion like disease study

an3drew said...

"No gap. No separation.'

plenty of gap, plenty of separation, dogen and you are wanking !

good illustration of voynich-ese btw !

bankei posts another good example of voynichese with that cosmological bullshit or non sequitir

the emperor has no clothes, this stuff is meaningless !

an

ounce

of

your

own

creativity

is

worth

ten

million

tons

of

regurgitating

others

bullshit !

Anonymous said...

I believe I'm done here as well. I'll not be back for a few months at the very least.

Mysterion and now this an3drew guy have absolutely ruined this place. No offense to either of you guys, and I surely don't think that either of you see it this way... and so be it. Carry on as you see fit. I'm opting to leave this place for a while.

I'll probably swing back by by the end of the year or so, but I can't stand the spamming nonsense these two post (in my opinion).

an3drew said...

"I'm aware that An3drew is somewhere on the autistic spectrum - he talks about it on his website. I'm somewhere on some spectrum too, I suppose."

autism is the true paradigm of reality, not zen

it's odd, i can cope with other people on a blog owned by some-one else but i could not cope if i owned the blog myself !

i actually think brad warner is a bit the same and the way he copes with it is to distance himself and have a complete hands off attitude and allows it just to run, a phemonenon of nature so to speak !

an3drew said...

"Mysterion and now this an3drew guy have absolutely ruined this place."

wank on, you don't like what light shows you up to be !

alan sailer said...

"I sometimes reflectively consider how a little extra information might inform (I dare not say educate) the uninformed (I dare not say uneducated).

Otherwise, I live in the moment. I comment on the moment in which I live.

You should try it sometime for yourself."

Amazing series of statements there, Mysterion. Arrogant, patronizing and just....amazing.

My excuse for being a jerk?

I am just not such a highly awakened being as you are.

With some luck, I never will be.

Anonymous said...

"autism is the true paradigm of reality, not zen" Explain why.

One case of scrapie in 2010 in
Australia.

an3drew said...

"autism is the true paradigm of reality, not zen" Explain why.

-------------

autism is the deconstructed condition which is naturally open to infinity

human completeness is the obstruction of infinity or buddha if you will

human incompleteness/deconstruction allows the light and actuality of infinity or buddha !

the greats of zen were all extremely autistic

the mistake that just about everybody makes is to build some new model of completeness, called "zen" in this case, christianity, judaism, islam or atheism in other cases

a lot slide along under agnosticism which is a tenth way house !

an3drew said...

"One case of scrapie in 2010 in
Australia"

atypical scrapie, apparently not infectious to humans and may in fact be spontaneous or some combination of genetic susceptiblity in sheep and transmission

one in 400 sheep in europe has it so if it was transmissible to humans they would sure know about it !

Anonymous said...

"autism is the deconstructed condition which is naturally open to infinity"

What is a deconstructed condition?
Deconstructed from what? A lifetime
of conditioning?

Is infinity unlimited possibility?

If autism is the optimal state, why
do you offer nutritional advice to
parents on how to correct it?

an3drew said...

it's interesting that prion diseases and susceptibility to prion diseases spring out of an anti-oxidant system in the brain, just the other side of it so to speak

some
very bright people go on

to

develop

alzheimers

and

i

can
now

see

why !

Janice Soprano said...

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Mysterion said...

Blogger alan sailer said...

LOL

Alan: _You_ should have detected the oozing sarcasm.

It was (obviously) unworthy of your reaction.

cheers,

chas

Anthony Soprano said...

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Avon Barksdale said...

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an3drew said...

"If autism is the optimal state, why
do you offer nutritional advice to
parents on how to correct it?"

it's a murderous condition and i would far rather be a blind normal goign thru life thinking what i am doing has meaning !

plus you usually die young, when i was travelling through zen years ago they all knew what i was but cocked a snook at me cause they knew i wasn't going to last, well chew stones you arseholes, i am alive and well !

of

course

you

lot

are

on

autistic

spectrum

but

only

seem

to

be

interested

in

making

yourselves

more
blind !

Jimmy McNulty said...

Hello, Chicago.

If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer.

It's the answer told by lines that stretched around schools and churches in numbers this nation has never seen, by people who waited three hours and four hours, many for the first time in their lives, because they believed that this time must be different, that their voices could be that difference.

It's the answer spoken by young and old, rich and poor, Democrat and Republican, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, gay, straight, disabled and not disabled. Americans who sent a message to the world that we have never been just a collection of individuals or a collection of red states and blue states.

We are, and always will be, the United States of America.

It's the answer that led those who've been told for so long by so many to be cynical and fearful and doubtful about what we can achieve to put their hands on the arc of history and bend it once more toward the hope of a better day.

It's been a long time coming, but tonight, because of what we did on this date in this election at this defining moment change has come to America.

A little bit earlier this evening, I received an extraordinarily gracious call from Senator McCain.

Senator McCain fought long and hard in this campaign. And he's fought even longer and harder for the country that he loves. He has endured sacrifices for America that most of us cannot begin to imagine. We are better off for the service rendered by this brave and selfless leader.

I congratulate him; I congratulate Governor Palin for all that they've achieved. And I look forward to working with them to renew this nation's promise in the months ahead.

I want to thank my partner in this journey, a man who campaigned from his heart, and spoke for the men and women he grew up with on the streets of Scranton ... and rode with on the train home to Delaware, the vice president-elect of the United States, Joe Biden.

And I would not be standing here tonight without the unyielding support of my best friend for the last 16 years ... the rock of our family, the love of my life, the nation's next first lady ... Michelle Obama.

Sasha and Malia ... I love you both more than you can imagine. And you have earned the new puppy that's coming with us ...to the new White House.

And while she's no longer with us, I know my grandmother's watching, along with the family that made me who I am. I miss them tonight. I know that my debt to them is beyond measure.

To my sister Maya, my sister Alma, all my other brothers and sisters, thank you so much for all the support that you've given me. I am grateful to them.

And to my campaign manager, David Plouffe ... the unsung hero of this campaign, who built the best — the best political campaign, I think, in the history of the United States of America.

To my chief strategist David Axelrod ... who's been a partner with me every step of the way.

To the best campaign team ever assembled in the history of politics ... you made this happen, and I am forever grateful for what you've sacrificed to get it done.

But above all, I will never forget who this victory truly belongs to. It belongs to you. It belongs to you.

I was never the likeliest candidate for this office. We didn't start with much money or many endorsements. Our campaign was not hatched in the halls of Washington. It began in the backyards of Des Moines and the living rooms of Concord and the front porches of Charleston. It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give $5 and $10 and $20 to the cause.

an3drew said...

what

am

i ?

infinities

natural

son !

Paulie Walnuts said...

For too long, the citizens of the Middle East have lived in the midst of death and fear. The hatred of a few holds the hopes of many hostage. The forces of extremism and terror are attempting to kill progress and peace by killing the innocent. And this casts a dark shadow over an entire region. For the sake of all humanity, things must change in the Middle East.
It is untenable for Israeli citizens to live in terror. It is untenable for Palestinians to live in squalor and occupation. And the current situation offers no prospect that life will improve. Israeli citizens will continue to be victimised by terrorists, and so Israel will continue to defend herself.

In the situation the Palestinian people will grow more and more miserable. My vision is two states, living side by side in peace and security. There is simply no way to achieve that peace until all parties fight terror. Yet, at this critical moment, if all parties will break with the past and set out on a new path, we can overcome the darkness with the light of hope. Peace requires a new and different Palestinian leadership, so that a Palestinian state can be born.

I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practising democracy, based on tolerance and liberty. If the Palestinian people actively pursue these goals, America and the world will actively support their efforts. If the Palestinian people meet these goals, they will be able to reach agreement with Israel and Egypt and Jordan on security and other arrangements for independence. And when the Palestinian people have new leaders, new institutions and new security arrangements with their neighbours, the United States of America will support the creation of a Palestinian state whose borders and certain aspects of its sovereignty will be provisional until resolved as part of a final settlement in the Middle East.

In the work ahead, we all have responsibilities. The Palestinian people are gifted and capable, and I am confident they can achieve a new birth for their nation. A Palestinian state will never be created by terror - it will be built through reform. And reform must be more than cosmetic change, or veiled attempt to preserve the status quo. True reform will require entirely new political and economic institutions, based on democracy, market economics and action against terrorism.

Today, the elected Palestinian legislature has no authority, and power is concentrated in the hands of an unaccountable few. A Palestinian state can only serve its citizens with a new constitution which separates the powers of government. The Palestinian parliament should have the full authority of a legislative body. Local officials and government ministers need authority of their own and the independence to govern effectively.

The United States, along with the European Union and Arab states, will work with Palestinian leaders to create a new constitutional framework, and a working democracy for the Palestinian people. And the United States, along with others in the international community will help the Palestinians organise and monitor fair, multi-party local elections by the end of the year, with national elections to follow.

Gladys Knight said...

Today, the Palestinian people live in economic stagnation, made worse by official corruption. A Palestinian state will require a vibrant economy, where honest enterprise is encouraged by honest government. The United States, the international donor community and the World Bank stand ready to work with Palestinians on a major project of economic reform and development. The United States, the EU, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund are willing to oversee reforms in Palestinian finances, encouraging transparency and independent auditing.

And the United States, along with our partners in the developed world, will increase our humanitarian assistance to relieve Palestinian suffering. Today, the Palestinian people lack effective courts of law and have no means to defend and vindicate their rights. A Palestinian state will require a system of reliable justice to punish those who prey on the innocent. The United States and members of the international community stand ready to work with Palestinian leaders to establish finance - establish finance and monitor a truly independent judiciary.

Today, Palestinian authorities are encouraging, not opposing, terrorism. This is unacceptable. And the United States will not support the establishment of a Palestinian state until its leaders engage in a sustained fight against the terrorists and dismantle their infrastructure. This will require an externally supervised effort to rebuild and reform the Palestinian security services. The security system must have clear lines of authority and accountability and a unified chain of command.

America is pursuing this reform along with key regional states. The world is prepared to help, yet ultimately these steps toward statehood depend on the Palestinian people and their leaders. If they energetically take the path of reform, the rewards can come quickly. If Palestinians embrace democracy, confront corruption and firmly reject terror, they can count on American support for the creation of a provisional state of Palestine.

Tony Orlando said...

With a dedicated effort, this state could rise rapidly, as it comes to terms with Israel, Egypt and Jordan on practical issues, such as security. The final borders, the capital and other aspects of this state's sovereignty will be negotiated between the parties, as part of a final settlement. Arab states have offered their help in this process, and their help is needed.

I've said in the past that nations are either with us or against us in the war on terror. To be counted on the side of peace, nations must act. Every leader actually committed to peace will end incitement to violence in official media, and publicly denounce homicide bombings. Every nation actually committed to peace will stop the flow of money, equipment and recruits to terrorist groups seeking the destruction of Israel - including Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hizbullah. Every nation actually committed to peace must block the shipment of Iranian supplies to these groups, and oppose regimes that promote terror, like Iraq. And Syria must choose the right side in the war on terror by closing terrorist camps and expelling terrorist organisations.

Leaders who want to be included in the peace process must show by their deeds an undivided support for peace. And as we move toward a peaceful solution, Arab states will be expected to build closer ties of diplomacy and commerce with Israel, leading to full normalisation of relations between Israel and the entire Arab world.

Israel also has a large stake in the success of a democratic Palestine. Permanent occupation threatens Israel's identity and democracy. A stable, peaceful Palestinian state is necessary to achieve the security that Israel longs for. So I challenge Israel to take concrete steps to support the emergence of a viable, credible Palestinian state.

As we make progress towards security, Israel forces need to withdraw fully to positions they held prior to September 28, 2000. And consistent with the recommendations of the Mitchell Committee, Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories must stop.

The Palestinian economy must be allowed to develop. As violence subsides, freedom of movement should be restored, permitting innocent Palestinians to resume work and normal life. Palestinian legislators and officials, humanitarian and international workers, must be allowed to go about the business of building a better future. And Israel should release frozen Palestinian revenues into honest, accountable hands.

Monte Hall said...

Fellow citizens: For eight years, it has been my honor to serve as your president. The first decade of this new century has been a period of consequence – a time set apart. Tonight, with a thankful heart, I have asked for a final opportunity to share some thoughts on the journey that we have traveled together and the future of our Nation.

Five days from now, the world will witness the vitality of American democracy. In a tradition dating back to our founding, the presidency will pass to a successor chosen by you, the American people. Standing on the steps of the Capitol will be a man whose story reflects the enduring promise of our land. This is a moment of hope and pride for our whole Nation. And I join all Americans in offering best wishes to President-elect Obama, his wife Michelle, and their two beautiful girls.

Tonight I am filled with gratitude – to Vice President Cheney and members of the Administration; to Laura, who brought joy to this house and love to my life; to our wonderful daughters, Barbara and Jenna; to my parents, whose examples have provided strength for a lifetime. And above all, I thank the American people for the trust you have given me. I thank you for ....


...the prayers that have lifted my spirits. And I thank you for the countless acts of courage, generosity, and grace that I have witnessed these past eight years.

This evening, my thoughts return to the first night I addressed you from this house – September 11, 2001. That morning, terrorists took nearly 3,000 lives in the worst attack on America since Pearl Harbor. I remember standing in the rubble of the World Trade Center three days later, surrounded by rescuers who had been working around the clock.

I remember talking to brave souls who charged through smoke-filled corridors at the Pentagon and to husbands and wives whose loved ones became heroes aboard Flight 93. I remember Arlene Howard, who gave me her fallen son’s police shield as a reminder of all that was lost. And I still carry his badge.

Al Pacino said...

Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
People let me tell you about a place I know
To get in it don't take much dough
Where you can really do your thing, oh yeah
It's got a neon sign outside that says
Come in and take a look at your mind
You'd be surprised what you might find, yeah
Strobe lights flashin' way till after sundown
People gather there from all parts of town
Oh yeah, what do I call it
You know it's just across the track
People I'm talking about the psychedelic shack

Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at, oh yeah
You can have your fortune told
You can learn the meaning of soul
There ain't no such thing as time
Incense in the air
'In" signs painted everywhere
I guarantee you this place will blow your mind
Music so high, you can't get over it
So love you can't get under it
Right around the corner just across the track
People I'm talking about the psychedelic shack

Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Millionaires, kings and queens go there to do their things
You might see anybody there, yeah
Bear skin rugs, tails and beads
Don't really matter what you wear
You can take off your shoes, sit on the floor
Join in and be what you wanna be
Don't you know that it's right
Around the corner just across the track
People I'm talking about the psychedelic shack

Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at
They got a cat there shouting the blues
Talking about payin some dues
People walking around reciting poetry
Screamin guitars and a thousand colored lights
People I'm telling you this place is really out of sight
You can have your fortune told
You can learn the meaning of soul
I guarantee this place will blow your mind
Don't you know it's right around the corner
Just across the track
People I'm talking about the psychedelic shack

alan sailer said...

Mysterion,

That is exactly, and I do mean exactly the technique that Ann Coulter uses.

Make an outrageous statement, people get outraged, then say "Oh you silly people, you didn't get the sarcasm/joke?".

So the poor mark gets slapped twice, first the insult and then, ba-boom, you are too stupid not to see that it was all a joke in the first place.

Not even a nice try, Mysterion.

Anonymous said...

They probably cocked a snoot
because you weren't following the
normal approved lines of communica-
tion and you kept calling them blind idiots. It usually has that
effect.

Pancho Villa said...

In 1995, researchers at the University of Kansas used
viruses linked to healthy respiratory cells to destroy and
replace diseased cells in patients afflicted with lung
cancer.

In 1997, scientists at the Krippen Center for Genetic
Research in Berkeley, California made a significant
stride forward. By manipulating the genetic
information in a common blood cell and infusing it
with the characteristics of a potent virus, they were
able to create a biological warrior cell--the viragene.
Once introduced into a host, the viragene could hunt
and obliterate the body's natural enemies--tumors,
thickening arteries, decaying bone. Anything. The
'enemy' would be consumed, digested, and
transformed into energy to fuel the viragene. It was a
perfect tool. And the possibilities were limitless. AIDS,
cancer, muscular dystrophy, even the flu--the viragene
could beat them all.

The first human trials began in March of 1998. The
initial trial group, dubbed the 'Krippen Ten', were
afflicted with leukemia. These individuals, along with
Dr. Krippen, were about to make more than medical
history. They were to forever change the course of
humanity.





"Being unconquerable lies with yourself; being conquerable lies with the
enemy."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War.


"We used to wonder where war lived, what it was that made it so vile. And now
we realize
that we know where it lives. That it is inside ourselves."

Albert Camus, Notebooks.


"'Let there be light!' said God, and there was light. 'Let there be blood!'
says man, and
there's a sea!"

Lord Byron, Don Juan.

A VIDEO IMAGE FLICKERS TO LIFE. A ruggedly handsome man with dark, haunted
eyes. Eyes that have seen hell.

NEVILLE
My name is Robert Neville. Today is October 17th,
the year 2002. I was born in 1960, on this very day,
so that makes today my birthday. (remembering)
Every year for my birthday, my wife Ellen would throw
me a party. A kid's party. Cake, ice cream, funny hats,
"Pin the Tail on the Donkey". One year she rented a pony.
It didn't matter that we were grown-ups and this was all
kind of silly to the neighbors. She just did things like
that.
She brought such joy into everything she did, everything
she touched... (too nostalgic) I am forty-two today.
I feel fine. I feel fit. My mental state is... pretty good.
(withdraws) Let's start over. (focuses)
My name is Robert Neville. I was born forty-two years
ago in Des Moines, Iowa. I had a wife Ellen and a daughter
Grace. My father's name was Bill and my mother's
Charlotte. They were farm people.
I hope... Someday... When someone finds these tapes...
You will know who I was. What I was about.
What I tried to do. What I try to do. (withdraws)
I think I killed six last night.

THE VIDEO IMAGE TURNS TO STATIC.


INT. NEVILLE'S HOUSE - DAY

ROBERT NEVILLE switches off the VIDEO CAMERA pointed at him. He collapses
the tripod and rests the apparatus in a corner. He wears shorts, a t-shirt,
tennis shoes. He slices a CD into an impressive MUSIC SYSTEM and Mahler's
"Resurrection" Symphony BLASTS from speakers throughout the house.


INT. NEVILLE'S HOUSE - EXERCISE ROOM - DAY

A serious workout facility. Weights, boxer's heavy bag, rowing machine, etc.
Neville pushes himself through a series of strenuous exercises. His body is
in fantastic shape. Taught muscle. Lean, not bulky. His movements are
lithe, almost graceful. More track athlete than body builder.


INT. NEVILLE'S HOUSE - SHOWER - DAY

Neville washes his body and we notice the SCARS. On his ankles, wrists,
neck, stomach, back. A few are the results of crude stitches, the others...
Bite marks ? Scratches ?

JJ Walker said...

Hey, Brennan.


Mom, I'm watching the thing
with the lady.


I'm leaving. Okay?
I'll be home around 11.


- Bye, Mom.
- Bye, Brennan.


Let's slowly get those hips up.
Good. Now, hold it right here. Great.


Dale.


Dale, I'm leaving for the conference.


- You leave me money for pizza, Dad?
- Yeah, there's $20 on the hall table.


Do not order pay-per-view, buddy.


- But what if I want wings?
- You don't need wings.


That's not enough, Dad!


The RTI cochlear implant...


...is the state-of-the-art
implantable hearing device...


...due to its input processing of sound
via the speech processor.


But the most exciting
new development...


...is the external processor...


...which fits directly over the ear...


...which eliminates the need to put
your face between those breasts.


I'm sorry. I'm just... I'm so lost.
And this never happens to me.


My name is Robert, and I play
racquetball. I collect coins.


Sweet Jesus! I love Korean food.


I am Nancy Huff. I know
how to make tandoori chicken...


...I contribute to NPR
every single year...


...and I love the movies
of Rob Reiner.


Pilates changed my life.


I have a boat, and I wanna retire
and sail around the world.


- I love the sea!
- And I drive a Mercedes...


...and I have a 40-year-old son, Dale,
who still lives at home.


- What did you just say?
- I knew I shouldn't have told you that.


I have a 39-year-old son
named Brennan...


...who still lives at home with me.


I would like to thank all of you...


...for being here with us
on this fantastic, wonderful day.


And I would like to raise my glass.


Dale and I wanna welcome you
to our home with open arms.


- Get a room, Dad.
- Oh, for chri... Dale!


Well, as you all know, my youngest
son, Derek, couldn't be here...


...because of an important
fishing trip.


But my other son, Brennan, was going
to be moving into his own place...


...but he was recently let go
from his job at PetSmart...


...so he is gonna be living with us.


I wasn't fired from my job,
I was laid off!


But you wouldn't
know the difference.


I didn't want salmon!
I said it four times.


This wedding is horseshit.


Somebody's awfully quiet
back there.


I'm not gonna call him Dad.


Brennan, you're 39 years old.


I would not expect you
to call him Dad.


Well, I'm not going to, ever.
Even if there's a fire.


Robert better not get in my face...


...because I'll drop
that motherfucker.


Jesus, Brennan.


I'm just saying, I think
you gotta think about your options.


I know that you are
technically married now...


...but that does not mean
that they have to live here.


Dale, I think it's time for a change
for both of us.


Dad, we're men, okay?


That means a few things.


We like to shit with the door open.
We talk about pussy.


We go on riverboat-gambling trips.
We make our own beef jerky.


That's what we do.
And now that is all wrecked.


We literally have never done
any of those things.


Where did he go to medical school?


He went to Northwestern
and Johns Hopkins.


- Is that good enough for you?
- No, it's not.

Spiro Agnew said...

LASHKAR GAH, Afghanistan — Punctually, at 8 o’clock every evening, the cellphone signals disappear in this provincial capital. Under pressure from the Taliban, the major carriers turn off their signal towers, effectively severing most of the connections to the rest of the world.



Related

News Analysis: A Leader’s Death Exposes Disarray in the Afghan Peace Process (October 4, 2011)


Times Topic: Taliban






Connect With Us on Twitter

Follow @nytimesworld for international breaking news and headlines.
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Mikhail Galustov for The New York Times

In Kabul, Afghanistan, cellphone service worked as usual on Tuesday, but in many areas of the country the Taliban control the hours of usage, defying the government's authority.


This now occurs in some portion of more than half the provinces in Afghanistan, and exemplifies the Taliban’s new and more subtle ways of asserting themselves, even as NATO generals portray the insurgents as a diminished force less able to hold ground. The question is whether the Taliban need to hold territory as they once did in order to influence the population. Increasingly, it seems, the answer is no.

Tactics like the cellphone offensive have allowed the Taliban to project their presence in far more insidious and sophisticated ways, using the instruments of modernity that they once shunned. The shutoff sends a daily reminder to hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Afghans that the Taliban still hold substantial sway over their future.

It is just one part of a broader shift in Taliban strategy that has focused on intimidation, carefully chosen assassinations and limited but spectacular assaults. While often avoiding large-scale combat with NATO forces, the Taliban and their allies in the Haqqani network have effectively undermined peace talks with the Afghan government of President Hamid Karzai and sought to pave the way for a gradual return to power as the American-led forces begin scaling back military operations in the country.

Attacks like the rocket attack on the American Embassy in Kabul on Sept. 13, for which American officials blamed the Haqqanis, effectively shift the fight to cities, where it is harder for NATO to respond with air power for fear of harming civilians. They also allow the Taliban to capture the airwaves for hours, especially in media-saturated cities, and fuel an aura of crisis.

Likewise, the assassination on Sept. 20 in Kabul of Burhanuddin Rabbani, the head of Afghanistan’s peace council, dominated the news and reopened dangerous fissures between the country’s Dari-speaking north and the Pashtun south, in a single calculated blow. The new Taliban do not aspire to kill a lot of people, it seems, just a few in the right places and in positions of power.

The Rabbani assassination not only demonstrated the insurgents’ rejection of the peace process, but it also reminded people of their ability to shape the next chapter in the country’s history as the Americans prepare to leave. Similarly, the Taliban have sought to remake their image this year as a way of positioning themselves to play a prominent role in Afghanistan’s future. It is a two-track strategy.

Interviews with dozens of Afghans suggest that throughout the country the Taliban have married locally tailored terrorist campaigns with new flexibility on issues such as education and business development.

Lou Holtz said...

By Tim Kenneally

Tue Oct 4, 2011 9:13pm EDT

Sounds like Hank Williams Jr. is ready for some apologizing. Wait, make that a lot of apologizing.

The clearly chastened country singer has offered yet another mea culpa, after a comment he made comparing Pres. Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler prompted ESPN to pull his intro from "Monday Night Football."

In the apology, published on the singer's web site, Williams admitted that his comment was "dumb," adding, "Sorry if it offended anyone."

Williams still contended, however, that he wasn't thrilled about the concept of Obama and Republican house speaker John Boehner golfing together.

"I have always been very passionate about Politics and Sports, and this time it got the Best or Worst of me," Williams writes. "The thought of the Leaders of both Parties Jukin and High Fiven on a Golf course, while so many Families are Struggling to get by simply made me Boil over."

In an earlier statement, Williams admitted that his comment was "extreme...I have always respected the office of the President."

Williams made his inflammatory statement on Fox News talk show "Fox & Friends." Grousing about Obama and Boehner playing golf together over the summer, Williams said it was like "Hitler playing golf with Benjamin Netanyahu."

Elsewhere during his appearance, Williams referred to Obama and Vice President Joe Biden as "the enemy."

Williams' comments were enough to make ESPN yank its regular opening, which features Williams singing "All My Rowdy Friends," from this week's "Monday Night Football."

"We are extremely disappointed with his comments, and as a result have decided to pull the open from tonight's telecast," ESPN said in a statement.

an3drew said...

this is what they always do, if they can't kick you out of a monastery they shout you down or in this case fill the board/blog comments with junk !

i must be writing well !

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

and

guides me

Anonymous said...

infinity

looks

over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

looks

over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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infinity

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guides me
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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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guides me
infinity

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infinity

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my

shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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Anonymous said...

infinity

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over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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Anonymous said...

guides me
infinity

looks

over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

looks

over

my

shoulder

and

guides me
infinity

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over

my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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my

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guides me
infinity

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my

shoulder

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guides me
infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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shoulder

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infinity

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infinity

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guides me
infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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infinity

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guides me
infinity

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an3drew said...

bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha

Anonymous said...

an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha

Anonymous said...

an3drew said...
boredyou got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha

Anonymous said...

an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha

Anonymous said...

an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha

Anonymous said...

an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha
an3drew said...
bored commenter without an ego

; o )

you got that right , it's like a gatha

Anonymous said...

Brad provides a public service. HCZ is a public toilet so to speak. mysterion and an3drew are unusually large assholes who searched and found extra capacity toilets. The love it here and will never leave. The problem is they both pee on the seat and never flush.

an3drew said...

infinity

looks

over

my

shoulder

and

guides me

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Anonymous said...

"While My Guitar Gently Weeps" is a song written by George Harrison. It was first performed by The Beatles for their double album The Beatles (also known as The White Album), featuring the lead guitar of Eric Clapton.

The song was ranked #135 on Rolling Stone's list of "The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time", #7 on their list of the 100 Greatest Guitar Songs of All Time, and #10 on their list of The Beatles 100 Greatest Songs.[2][3][4]





Contents
[hide] 1 Writing and recording
2 Personnel
3 Alternative versions
4 Performances
5 Notes
6 References


Writing and recording

Inspiration for the song came to Harrison when reading the I Ching, which, as he put it, "seemed to me to be based on the Eastern concept that everything is relative to everything else...opposed to the Western view that things are merely coincidental."[5] Taking this idea of relativism to his parents’ home in northern England, Harrison committed to write a song based on the first words he saw upon opening a random book. Those words were “gently weeps”, and he immediately began the song. As he said:


"I wrote "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" at my mother's house in Warrington. I was thinking about the Chinese I Ching, the Book of Changes... The Eastern concept is that whatever happens is all meant to be, and that there's no such thing as coincidence - every little item that's going down has a purpose.
"While My Guitar Gently Weeps" was a simple study based on that theory. I decided to write a song based on the first thing I saw upon opening any book - as it would be a relative to that moment, at that time. I picked up a book at random, opened it, saw 'gently weeps', then laid the book down again and started the song."[6]

The initial incarnation was not final, as Harrison said: "Some of the words to the song were changed before I finally recorded it.” A demo recorded at George's home in Esher includes an unused verse:
I look at the trouble and see that it's raging, While my guitar gently weeps. As I'm sitting here, doing nothing but ageing, Still, my guitar gently weeps.
As well as an unused line in the very beginning:
The problems you sow, are the troubles you're reaping, Still, my guitar gently weeps.
This line was eventually omitted in favour of the one appearing on The Beatles. An early acoustic guitar/organ take of the song, released on Anthology 3 and also used as the basis of the Love remix, featured a slightly different third verse:
I look from the wings at the play you are staging, While my guitar gently weeps. As I'm sitting here, doing nothing but ageing, Still, my guitar gently weeps.
The band recorded the song several times, including a version with a backward guitar solo[1] (as Harrison had done for "I'm Only Sleeping" on Revolver[7]), but Harrison was not satisfied.[1] On 6 September 1968, during a ride from Surrey into London, Harrison asked Eric Clapton to add a lead guitar solo to the song. Clapton was reluctant—he said, "Nobody ever plays on the Beatles' records"—but Harrison convinced him and Clapton's solo was recorded that evening.[8] Harrison later said that in addition to his solo, Clapton's presence had another effect on the band: "It made them all try a bit harder; they were all on their best behaviour."[8]

Personnel
George Harrison – double-tracked vocal, backing vocal, acoustic guitar
Paul McCartney – backing vocal, piano, Hammond organ, bass
John Lennon – electric guitar
Ringo Starr – drums, tambourine, castanets
Eric Clapton – lead guitar
Personnel per Ian MacDonald[9]

an3drew said...

anonymous


if


you


live

in


an


estranged


condition


then


anything


that


unestranges


you


is


going


to


hurt !


do


i


hurt


you ?

Anonymous said...

you hurt me an3drew. I feel pain when you lie.

an3drew said...

what would that lie be?

Benny said...

Hey Brad, I just wanted to thank you for your post. What you say is true and really important.
Delusions are inexhaustible;
I vow to end them all.

Anonymous said...

Mike Cross being kind to An3drew a couple of weeks ago:

It seems to me, Andrew, that you are practising the very behaviour that you are criticizing. You are not the first person to do that. We all tend to do it. But you seem to be demonstrating this mirror principle in a conspicuously exaggerated way.

I hope you accept this observation in the spirit of 11.53 which, as I read it, relates to the principle of negative feedback.

Anonymous said...

From a recent medical forum:

The guy's name is Andrew Levin, he has quite a reputation for causing controversy on messageboards. In fact he's banned from most of them. If you search for his name on the yahoo groups related to chelation or onibasu etc you will find some info....

Not to say that he is wrong though, i think he has been vilified because he is so rude to people. I'm interested in his perspective and he seems intelligent but he seems to make his views deliberately inacessible. It's a clever way of getting people to pay attention i reckon, by making out he doesn't care if you listen to him and being deliberately inflamatory...

Anonymous said...

Somebody send a link to Mike Cross's blog. I just can't get enough of this. Great post and even better comments.

Anonymous said...

Mike pulled the plug on Andrew and
me a couple of weeks ago because
he couldn't handle the truth.

Sitting in zazen to avoid the
world is an attachment. It isn't
the backward step into the light
turned inward.

Let infinity be your guide, and
the force be with you.

Anonymous said...

Is Mike Cross still on about the "mirror principle"? What a bore.

an3drew said...

"The guy's name is Andrew Levin, he has quite a reputation for causing controversy on messageboards. In fact he's banned from most of them"

i honestly figure i'm the most banned person on the web !

there's even a group of pro-chelation mums who started hunting me for a while

as i said you lot are mice compared to parents of developmentally disordered children looking for quick fixes come hell or high water

this

page

is

my

main

claim to

fame

Anonymous said...

Asperger Syndrome is a disorder on the autism spectrum. It is characterized by social interaction and communication difficulties, along with repetitive behavioural patterns. According to the National Autistic Society, people with the syndrome “find it more difficult to communicate and interact with others which can lead to high levels of anxiety and confusion”.

One symptom known along the autism/Asperger spectrum is an attempt to shock so as to hide an inability to understand the world. A recent article by charity Autism UK Independent suggests that this inability fuels such behaviour: “Being outrageous helps to overcome this problem, because other people, when they are very emotionally aroused, emit more and more obvious clues about what they are feeling. And the fact that you have predictably elicited strong feeling in someone else may be more rewarding than the fact that the feeling is hostile or distressing”.

Unlike many conditions on the autism spectrum, Asperger Syndrome shows relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. There is no single treatment, and management is largely dependent on behavioural therapy.

Anonymous said...

you lot are mice compared to parents of developmentally disordered children

And with good reason Andrew. You're extremely unbalanced.

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