Saturday, July 09, 2011

The Psychedelic Experience


First, I got quoted by a Huffington Post writer about Kalachakra, a big feel-good "Buddhist" festival going on right now in Washington DC. Here's the article: http://tinyurl.com/3texsfo.

I just returned from spending four days at Starwood, a pagan festival held in the Wisteria campgrounds in Pomeroy, Ohio. They had wifi there, which surprised me. But I was there to present two workshops and also to gather some data of my own, so I didn't spend much time on the web.

This festival is held by a group called A.C.E., the Association for Consciousness Exploration. Near as I can tell from simply walking around, watching and listening (and not doing any in depth research at all), ACE appears to be a group of older hippie guys who did a lot of their exploration of consciousness back in the sixties and seventies through ingesting large amounts of psychedelic substances. Some seem to have moved on to other things. Some have given up the drugs as their main form of exploration and now just smoke a little weed to get mellow. Others are still pretty deeply committed to so-called "entheogens" as a means of accessing so-called "higher states of consciousness."

Anyone who has read my book Hardcore Zen or, indeed, spent much time reading this blog knows already that I am not a great champion of the use of drugs as a means of spiritual advancement. I don't feel bad about not being a convenient go-to guy for encouragement to pollute the body/mind with toxic substances in order to achieve great awakenings at a cheap price. There are already plenty of people out there who advocate that.

While I was at Starwood, I was getting mightily annoyed by all the people out there who were deluding themselves and others into believing that a cheap dose of acid, 'shrooms, peyote, "molly" or whatever was going to get them to a higher spiritual plane. So I logged on to facebook and I wrote:

Drug users annoy the fuck out of me. Losers.

This received 49 "like" votes and has so far gathered 96 comments, the most recent of which showed up just six hours ago even though the status update appeared around 36 hours ago (if my barely adequate math skills are correct). I have no reason to believe the comments have stopped completely yet.

This is how I felt at midnight after spending several hours around some really energetic, intelligent, creative and fun kids who were loading themselves to the gills on psychoactive substances. Many of these substances appear to have been provided by older folks in the community who believed they were helping these young folks explore the frontiers of human consciousness or some such thing. Again, this is just my "eyeball" observation and is not based on in-depth research into the source of the drugs they were using. It was certainly clear that some of the older folks were very much encouraging this behavior even if they were not directly contributing to it.

These young stoned kids were really nice people, by the way. They went out of their way to generously provide free food for anyone who showed up at their campsite. And their food was way better than the overpriced stuff down at the main cafe on site. So I ate a lot of it.

I found myself becoming extremely fond of these folks. They were definitely a lot more fun to hang around with than just about anyone else at Starwood. They seemed to be asking questions rather than trying to revisit their glory days or wallow in a sea of bad cliches and dull role-playing games.

And yet they were destroying the very things that made them like that by numbing themselves to the real world with dangerous drugs. Moreover the very people who should have known better and should have been guiding them away from that kind of behavior were, instead, encouraging it.

I am not a fan of drugs. Never will be. And that makes some people really mad. I'm guessing these people feel like if they could convert me to their way of thinking it would be a double delicious coup. Getting someone like me to say drugs were The Way would count way more than getting Terrance McKenna to say it for the 30,000th time. But it's not going to happen.

At the same time, I am a huge, huge fan of much of the drug-influenced art, music and writing of the sixties and seventies. While I was at that campsite I sat and read most of the book The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert (aka Baba Ram Dass, later of Be Here Now fame). It's a book about the authors' deeply mistaken reading of the Tibetan Book of the Dead as a guide for the drug taking experience. It is also the inspiration for The Beatles marvelous song Tomorrow Never Knows.

It's a pretty cool book. I even went on-line and ordered a copy for myself. The fact that it's dead wrong doesn't make it any less cool. But, folks, that book is as old as I am. We're both copyrighted the same year! The brave new world Leary and Alpert envisioned would come about in the 21st century (aka now) when everybody tuned in, turned on and dropped out never happened.

Drugs did not make everybody become beautiful and loving and spiritual aware. Instead they led to death and crime and waste. Lots of my friends were bright young consciousness explorers when they were the age these kids I hung out with are now. Some cleaned up, some became waste cases, a few are dead.

It was one thing to believe in 1964 that a brave new tripped out age was about to dawn. It's quite another to still believe that now, having seen what the last 47 years have shown us about where that path leads.

If you want some examples, how about Jimi Hendrix, Sid Vicious, Syd Barrett, John Entwistle, Kurt Cobain... Do I really need to get so cliched with this? Come on now.

A number of people on my Facebook page took me to task for what they saw as a violation of "Right Speech." Listen. Right Speech isn't about being meek and mild and only telling people what they want to hear. Right Speech is saying what needs saying when it needs saying. Any speech that supports the use of drugs as a means to really get to know yourself is bullshit. Speech that softens the real hit some people need to get that message is useless.

You can comment all you want, but you won't change my mind about drugs. You will always and forever be wrong if you try to equate true spirituality with frying your brain on chemicals (even if they grow inside cacti and fungi). Put it this way, if you want me to say drugs are cool, you're gonna lose. And what would that make you?

249 comments:

1 – 200 of 249   Newer›   Newest»
Lauren said...

ha ha.... 1

Harry said...

Well, look at you. Freud would have something to say about that.

Anonymous said...

Here is the current article by Sam Harris, kind of on the same topic.
I think that he has a more ligitimate viewpoint than Brad's.
Not all of these things "Fry your Brain" But they do temporarily change your state of conciousness.
And this is something of interest, if you are interested in concoiusness.
http://www.samharris.org/

Anonymous said...

ONE !

Anonymous Bob said...

Harry, Sometimes a 1 is just a 1..

CAPTCHA : redish : I kid you not

Anonymous said...

think about it!
think about it!
think about it!
think about it!
think about it!
think about it!
think about it!
think about it!
...

Jean Vengua said...

I have felt the same way as you do, despite my own youthful experimentation w/hallucinogens. I think it's a lazy, potentially dangerous way to go. However, a podcast w/Dr. Roland Griffiths on The Secular Buddhist has me rethinking this... http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_069.php

Anonymous said...

bob got it right away!

Pjotr said...

Fjew I am lucky not to be you! Opening my mouth and having to deal with ton's of opinions....
On the other hand it keeps one busy and it give's inspiration to write.

Good luck!

Anonymous said...

drugs are useless.

but compare hendrix on guitar to debashish bhattacharya. hendrix looks like he's taking a crap. debashish has a light smile and is intensely focused on each action. hendrix eats his pleasure like an addict and hypnotizes his audience. debashish nibbles a bit to support his playing and creates space for awareness of sound.

the behavior of a drug addict such as hendrix is merely evidence of his state of mind. of what use is it, except to other drug addicts?

Anonymous said...

... or to other pleasure addicts?

john e mumbles said...

"Getting someone like me to say drugs were The Way would count way more than getting Terrance McKenna to say it for the 30,000th time."

I dunno, Terrance McK has been dead a long time, possibly getting him to say ANYTHING now would "count" way more than your endorsement of substance use.

Anonymous said...

Sigh. Like you I have tried hallucinogens. Quit them long before you did. No way would I ever do them again. But John Lennon would not have been John Lennon without them. He would have been.. Barry Manilow.

john e mumbles said...

As a long-time psychonaut myself, who in the last decade has -for no particular reasons- pared it down to a glass or two of wine evenings and an occasional Absinthe or Mohito come summertime... I would nevertheless be loath to advocate even the use of alcohol, a legal, and as such readily available hardcore drug IMO.

The people I work with at the homeless shelter represent several generations of substance abuse damage often exacerbating other mental health issues. I would not be exaggerating if I said that 90 per cent of these folks find themselves in homeless, jobless situations due to the ongoing presence of drug use in the family.

Stephanie said...

Had a wild hair to check in on HCZ today for the first time in a while, and wow! The whole Magid / Warner thing was fascinating. Going to comment here cause it’s the newest post. Forgive me.

First: I completely agree about the pretentiousness of sanghas and so many other things in New York. I sat with a few and while no one was ever rude to me, I never felt welcome. Even at one where I sat multiple times a week for a year. I introduced myself to people and tried to make friends and it never went anywhere. Back in Southwest Virginia, I felt like part of a family after sitting with the sangha here for one week.

I think there may be various factors at play in this, but I do believe at least part of it is the general vibe and attitude of New York, which made me so glad to leave. I would sum it up as, people don't know how to relax and enjoy life un-ironically. There's a whole added layer of analysis and self-regard, ambition to be seen and known, to achieve at any cost. But I can't say I don't understand the hard edge many New Yorkers have. New York is a tough place to live if you're not rich, even now, and I see a lot of the mannerisms of New Yorkers as a sort of survival mode. Living there certainly didn't bring out the best in me, though it made me stronger.

I agree with Harry 110%, that Barry's statement was a brazen violation of the ethical code of any therapist or analyst. An analysis is a deep penetration of a person's most vulnerable parts - the innuendo here is intentional - and to do so publicly and without any agreement is an act of violence, in my opinion.

Doesn't mean I think Barry Magid is evil. I've been guilty of using my own analyses of people as weapons before, which fills me with shame. But like Barry, Brad, and the rest of us, I am not perfect.

From the impression I have, I think Mr. Magid is more like Brad's persona than Brad is, which is that, as Mr. Magid has admitted himself, he's an angry person with a dark side, who's not afraid of confrontation and can be an asshole. Whereas I see Brad as a polite, naïve, and meek Midwestern boy, who's a bit puritanical in his view (this post is a great example).

Most therapists have an asshole side to them, I say this as someone in that profession, there is truly a violent under-current to what we do. Yes, we are hopefully compassionate, and agents of healing, but we get inside people whether they really want us to or are ready for us to or not, we pick people apart and reduce them.

I actually have great fondness for traditional psychoanalytical theory and practice. I find "evidence-based practice" to be a bit of hocus pocus; the reality is, with the thorny complex issues of the human mind, a lot of time there is no "success" in "healing the patient," whatever that is, and when there is "success," it's often more subtle. There's a reductionism to cognitive therapy, as useful as it can be; it treats symptoms, it's "functional" but soulless. Classic psychoanalysis is the poetry, the soul, a doorway of feeling that opens a space of compassion and connection with a client if you use it well.

I think it's good to examine our practice and be honest with ourselves when we're not carrying out our jobs effectively. To me, the heart of being a good therapist is being self-aware enough to know when YOUR shit, YOUR countertransference, is causing you to go off the rails. This takes a rigorous self-honesty that can be quite difficult to perfect, as we human beings are champions of self-deception! Even the best, most ethical therapists will fail at this sometimes.

I don't think either party involved in that incident is evil. I respect Brad as one of the most sincere and open teachers "on the circuit," and respect Barry as someone with brilliant ideas and his own form of intense openness. I think both could benefit from a little more self-awareness, as could we all.

Fregas said...

back in the day, the only thing i got into was a little weed. if it were legal, i'd probably partake every now and then. I don't see anything wrong with it as entertainment, and you might get some cool insights now and then, but its definitely not doing the same thing as zen or other forms of meditation. i'd say drugs lowers your awareness and consciousness, which is still interesting, but meditation enhances your consciousness. Zen gets you in touch very intimately with reality--your thoughts, feelings, perceptions, etc.

drugs wont get you to some spiritual higher plane, if for no other reason than they are too pleasurable.

Harry said...

Ever notice how phallic the number one is Anon Bob? I mean, c'mon, it's obvious what's going on there. I bet Lauren is slipping into a pair of pantyhose while we speak.

Hi Stephanie, if people start agreeing with each other round here we sickos will have to find somewhere else to troll on ourselves!

Regards,

H.

Pretaville said...

Guru Brad's correct, mostly.

Many a cowboy acidhead and conservative fratboy thinks via some LDS or 'shrooms they're headed into Nirvana, man--fereverr. (Like these delusional idiots).

For that matter Harris sucks as well--he's no....zen master. He's like a PC BF Skinner (and lets not forget his support of the BushCO war, and his infamous pro-torture essay)

On the other hand...Aldous Huxley wasn't just a stoner seeking insta-enlightenment. psychedelics are not likely to help you with yr sanskrit studies, either, grasshoppah

john e mumbles said...

Huxley's MOKSHA is worth a read, too, along with Shulgin's, McKenna, and oh what the hell, DeQuincy, Sir Richard Burton, Mohammad Mrabet....

john e mumbles said...

By "Shulgin's" I meant his PIHKAL: A Chemical Love Story, and the continuation, TIHKAL...

Pretaville said...

DeQuincy...and Coleridge. Cowboy druggies don't care for that high-brow sort of liter-rary product, Mumbles. They want to like party-hearty with the football team, or try to like bag the winner of wet tee-shirt contest at Sigma Krappa Epsilon...or roofie her, if need be. Nirvana dewd

ChucKtheAtheisT said...

Just what is "true spirituality?" I know that drugs provide fake spirituality as you do; however, no amount of contemplation or meditation is going to allow for any sort of spirituality if the mind/body dichotomy doesn't really exist. My path was something like this, "I used to be all hung up on drugs, then I was all hung up on the Lord, then I was all hung up on Soto Zen Buddhism, now I'd rather just unhang myself."

john e mumbles said...

I know, you're right; contemporary street drug culture consists of copping a scrip of Loritab, getting it filled at Wal Mart for $3.00, then selling the pills for $5.00 a piece.

The area where I live is rife with this new drug economy, plus the 30-year meth-amphetamine manufacturing epidemic. The latter went from Hells Angels to farmers trying to keep the farm in no time.

Anonymous said...

Episode 69 :: Dr. Roland Griffiths :: Psilocybin and Meditation

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_069.php


Drugs and the Meaning of Life

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/

Anonymous said...

Episode 72 :: David McMahan :: The Making of Buddhist Modernism

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_072.php

Pretaville said...

yes. Dope = tweeek around here too. Maybe a few crack ho's eastside.

Mention...cannabis or 'shrooms yr likely to get rolled . Opiates---well, most collegeboys probably don't want to deal with mex mafia.


Biff: most excellent chiba, Bunny! Bunny: Yes, jolly good, if I say so myself, though I prefer....the china white. Biff: You cheeky monkey you.

john e mumbles said...

The trick for junk is to get into a methadone clinic. They don't do the reduction "cure" anymore, they're into self-perpetuation, so your addiction is assured into perpetuity.

john e mumbles said...

Or (see first paragraph 11:11 AM) just snort some pills.

Pretaville said...

Come on Mums--no moralisms, por favor. Chasin' the Dragon on occasion need not mean....morphin' into a street junkie. For that matter, as one who has been around ..junkies and tweeker-hicks or psychedelic kreeps....viva junkies! Like musack too: the good ones are usually ...on H (Coltrane, Bill Evans, Hendrix, etc)

Phumbling said...

Hello! I appreciate your disdain for drugs. I have difficulty with you calling drug users losers. The drugs are shit and - pause - I reflected just now on what I had written (now erased) and I guess when you break it down - taking drugs = loser. Shit, I just hate calling people out like that. Damn you Brad Warner.
It really is scary though, believing drugs are the answer and a quick fix. Nothing but sitting down, shutting up, and looking at yourself really and being accountable to NOW is okay. Everyday I seem to learn more about not the importance of words, but the importance of my assumptions those words mean when they come from someone else.
Thanks!

Ghost said...

While driving on a very long road trip, some people stop to enjoy the rides when they pass an amusement park. This doesn’t help expedite their journey in any way, but it can be fun as long as they don’t mistake the amusement park for their destination or the rollercoasters for their vehicle.

“Drugs are bad… mkay”

Anonymous said...

Yea, Bob Marley wasn't very spiritual. What a loser.

Anonymous said...

I've recently been reading some Robert Anton Wilson who I'd never heard of until someone posted a link here to the "Maybe Logic" documentary. He wrote some amazing stuff that certainly appears to have been enhanced by his use of marijuana, peyote, LSD, etc. He also used marijuana near the end of his life for leg pain resulting from post polio syndrome. I would not say that his usage was wrong in either situation. Drugs can be considered as chemical tools and like all tools are not inherently "wrong" or "bad". It depends on who uses them and how they are used.

Anonymous said...

As others have said, your view that drug users are annoying is not what I personally found objectionable about your post. I'm not a fan of drugs as a means of "enlightenment," or for recreational purposes. However, calling a huge, diverse group of people "losers" seems really judgemental to my way of seeing. People have all kinds of reasons for using drugs, and many of them are lost in a hellish cycle. Publicly condemning them as losers is probably not what they need. It just seemed like a rash, emotional generalization you had to a specific situation. But we're all guilty of that from time to time, so it's not like you should be held to some higher "zen" standard.

Pretaville said...

RA Wilson was a blow-hard libertarian-quack and occultist (not at all synonymous with authentic ..zen). He could tell a few dirty jokes ala Carlin--. Dope didn't help, but most likely made things worse. Next question.

Anonymous said...

The US economy desperately needs new products that can be produced domestically. Growing, selling, buying, possession and usage of all plants should be legal.

Pretaville said...

yawn.

Try like reading Kublai Khan a few times cowboy-stoner (or ... Huxley...or the Dhammapada) and save the hamfisted pot-politics for yr NAMBLA pals. This isn't DU.

Anonymous said...

"Pretaville said...
...Next question.
2:01 PM"

There wasn't even a previous question.

Anonymous said...

Brad, Brad, Brad.

When are you gonna "wake up" and admit that the so-called practice of zazen is as worthless as an ac-d induced fantasy?

The gurus, the holy men, and the conmen of enlightenment that we have in our midst today offers us permanent bliss. This promise has been passed onto us from generation to generation. Because we are brainwashed into believing in this centuries-old offer, we continue to believe in the experience of bliss, which our gurus and holy men claim to experience nonstop. I don’t know if what I am saying makes any sense to you. That’s why I keep telling people that this great spiritual heritage, which many Indians are so proud of, was born out of acid heads... - U.G. Krishnamurti

Anonymous said...

What would the procedure be to trade Pretaville for Mysterion?
Bear in mind that I don't even like Mysterion.

Pretaville said...

Would the procedure be to trade some mormons or sunday schoolers for..the cowards posting as Anny? And then like put a bullet in their white trash heads?

Yes. We were discussing De quincey and Coleridge--Huxley and the Dhammapada. Not Marley and legalization, frat trash .

Anonymous said...

Pet ownership is slavery.

Zoo animals are political prisoners.

Livestock farms are concentration camps.

All sentient beings should be free.

That includes you.

Anonymous said...

De Quincy, M.E. was a great show and Jack Klugman is a great actor.

Lauren said...

What's all this silly pairing of zen and 'spirituality'? Zen is practicality, or reality but not 'spirituality'
Dig a ditch straight. A ditch gets dug. Dig a ditch high. A ditch gets dug. What goes on in your consciousness in either case is just a doddle. Drink booze, take pills, just mucks up the soup your brain sits in. It doesn't mean anything.

The real trouble is when someone thinks that little mind show is real, and goes harming others, or themselves, based on it.

Loftily, beautiful, peace filled ideals are a doddle. Depressed, angst filled worry is a doddle.

Sweep the floor. Clean your bowl. Sing a song. Relax. Work. Sit. Die.

p.s. I'm not free of doddling myself.

p.p.s. Harry....it's Spanks, not panty hose...but you were close...actually you were second...not number one...I was number one...ha ha.

Anonymous said...

Pretaville,

From which Coleridge did you graduate?

Pretaville said...

Wow, golly Bongronius with his phony vegan schtick--then carne or pollo for din din, and sunday mornin' at the baptick church.

Japhy Ryder eats steak (or did, assuming he's still in the mortal realm)--you're not worthy of the ravens on his grave, BongRon.

Anonymous said...

...and *I* was the Winged Monkey!

Pretaville said...

inept irony--the sure sign of a white trash morm-xtian invasion.


when you meet a Romney supporter on the road, carjack it

Anonymous said...

Original Gojira without Raymund Burr.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/256823/gojira

Pretaville said...

(now, prepare for the sunday school troll to start nabbing names and imitating/insulting people. Its MO)


Zen: it's not for honkeys, even ones who take dope.

Pretaville said...

Just ignore all of my comments. I ran out of my meds and the pharmacy is closed until Monday morning. Please accept my humble apologies.

Pretaville said...

That wasn't me.

Pretaville said...

That wasn't me either.

Pretaville said...

That last one was me.

10101001 said...

just as predicted

one Byron Bellamy white trash Romney supporter, texass-neo-nazi, born again-christian with his usual insults and ham fisted criminal threats

Maybe explain Subluxation, now Chiropractor Guru! Or instead try to sell Donny Osmond tees to the regs


heh heh

guru SchopenhauerX9Xiiooxx said...

wow !

yippeee!

the troll-lying-defamation-stalking game starts

(this is what you get, Guru Brad, with allowing idiot trash to post away--in this case, a mormon bunko artiste from sac--and his cronies trying to selling chrio supplies, and dope as well)

Anonymous said...

Was that last comment a cut-up or a stream of consciousness?

Just because it worked for Kerouac and Burroughs doesn't mean that everyone can do it successfully.

Anonymous said...

Episode 69 :: Dr. Roland Griffiths :: Psilocybin and Meditation

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_069.php


Drugs and the Meaning of Life

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/



________________________________



Episode 72 :: David McMahan :: The Making of Buddhist Modernism

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_072.php

guru SchopenhauerX9Xiiooxx said...

Byro the Subluxanator!

Schopenhauer, cowboy stoner. Not yr beatnik phonies. The Subluxanator never read or understood beats anyway (excepting maybe a few sections of Naked Lunch which he and ...his dallass nova boy had fun with).

Fred Phelps of Sac marches on

Anonymous said...

Pretaville,
James Joyce just sent me an e-mail saying that your comments are incomprehensible gibberish.

10101001 said...

You don't know f**k about Joyce, either, Byro the Subluxanator, blanca basura de mormono-babilon--couldn't tell Bloom from yr bong. Yr not a writer, stalker. Your jokes are not funny whatsoever hick. You even flunked yr LVN. But you do know...Subluxation! Explain it to us, mierda

Anonymous said...

the Zen of snake oil, y'all--that's Ol Doc Palmer and the mormon Subluxation gang. Now featured on New White trash worlds

Anonymous said...

Schopenhauer enthusiastically endorsed eugenics and pederasty.
Next question.

Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

Aieeeeeeeeeee!

The subluxanator! The Nauvoo. And ..thetans

Anonymous said...

Uh oh--30 seconds on Wiki, and Byro's an expert in Schop. german idealism. In fact, he didn't you sack of moralist shit. The pedo kings are like your Elders at the Sac Mormon-tard temple

(you need to stop these idiots, BW)

Lauren said...

Correction...blush blush.. by "p.s. I'm not free of doddling myself." I mean "As for myself, I'm not free of doing things that are a doddle". If anyone cares.

Hagbard Celine said...

Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati

Preface to the Falcon Press Edition, 1986

Cosmic Trigger was originally published by And/Or Press about ten years ago, and by Pocket Books shortly thereafter. Although some of my novels have sold far better, in two dimensions at least it is my most "successful" book in human terms.

1. From the date of the first printing to the present, I have received more mail about Cosmic Trigger than about anything else I ever wrote, and most of this mail has been unusually intelligent and open-minded. For some reason, many readers of this book think they can write to me intimately and without fear, about subjects officially Taboo in our society. I have learned a great deal from the correspondence, and have met some wonderful new friends.

2. On lecture tours, I am always asked more questions about this book than about all my other works together.

This new edition presents an opportunity to answer the most frequent questions and to correct the most persistent misunderstandings.

It should be obvious to all intelligent readers (but curiously is not obvious to many) that my viewpoint in this book is one of agnosticism. The word "agnostic" appears explicitly in the prologue and the agnostic attitude is revealed again and again in the text, but many people still think I "believe" some of the metaphors and models employed here. I therefore want to make it even clearer than ever before that

I DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING

This remark was made, in these very words, by John Gribbin, physics editor of New Scientist magazine, in a BBC-TV debate with Malcolm Muggeridge, and it provoked incredulity on the part of most viewers. It seems to be a hangover of the medieval Catholic era that causes most people, even the educated, to think that everybody must "believe" something or other, that if one is not a theist, one must be a dogmatic atheist, and if one does not think Capitalism is perfect, one must believe fervently in Socialism, and if one does not have blind faith in X, one must alternatively have blind faith in not-X or the reverse of X.

Hagbard Celine said...

My own opinion is that belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence. The more certitude one assumes, the less there is left to think about, and a person sure of everything would never have any need to think about anything and might be considered clinically dead under current medical standards, where absence of brain activity is taken to mean that life has ended.

My attitude is identical to that of Dr. Gribbin and the majority of physicists today, and is known in physics as "the Copenhagen Interpretation," because it was formulated in Copenhagen by Dr. Niels Bohr and his co-workers c. 1926-28. The Copenhagen Interpretation is sometimes called "model agnosticism" and holds that any grid we use to organize our experience of the world is a model of the world and should not be confused with the world itself. Alfred Korzybski, the semanticist, tried to popularize this outside physics with the slogan, "The map is not the territory." Alan Watts, a talented exegete of Oriental philosophy, restated it more vividly as "The menu is not the meal."

Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" - or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel - "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude.

Cosmic Trigger deals with a process of deliberately induced brain change through which I put myself in the years 1962-1976. This process is called "initiation" or "vision quest" in many traditional societies and can loosely be considered some dangerous variety of self-psychotherapy in modern terminology. I do not recommend it for everybody, and I think I obtained more good results than bad ones chiefly because I had been through two varieties of ordinary psychotherapy before I started my own adventures and because I had a good background in scientific philosophy and was not inclined to "believe" any astounding Revelations too literally.

Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

Lauren, the white trash trolls have arrived (ie, note the ridiculous, demonic belch re Schopenhauer). Little use in rational discussion.

Better, chat about Ann Romney's skanky butt, or....appliantologists. Maybe that'll rile the hicks.

Hagbard Celine said...

Briefly, the main thing I learned in my experiments is that "reality" is always plural and mutable.

Since most of Cosmic Trigger is devoted to explaining and illustrating this, and since I still encounter people who have read all my writings on this subject and still do not understand what I am getting at, I will try again in this new Preface to explain it ONE MORE TIME, perhaps more clearly than before.

"Reality" is a word in the English language which happens to be (a) a noun and (b) singular. Thinking in the English language (and in cognate Indo-European languages) therefore subliminally programs us to conceptualize "reality" as one block-like entity, sort of like a huge New York skyscraper, in which every part is just another "room" within the same building. This linguistic program is so pervasive that most people cannot "think" outside it at all, and when one tries to offer a different perspective they imagine one is talking gibberish.

The notion that "reality" is a noun, a solid thing like a brick or a baseball bat, derives from the evolutionary fact that our nervous systems normally organize the dance of energy into such block-like "things," probably as instant bio-survival cues. Such "things," however, dissolve back into energy dances -- processes or verbs -- when the nervous system is synergized with certain drugs or transmuted by yogic or shamanic exercises or aided by scientific instruments. In both mysticism and physics, there is general agreement that "things" are constructed by our nervous systems and that "realities" (plural) are better described as systems or bundles of energy functions.

So much for "reality" as a noun. The notion that "reality" is singular, like a hermetically sealed jar, does not jibe with current scientific findings which, in this century, suggest that "reality" may better be considered as flowing and meandering, like a river, or interacting, like a dance or evolving, like life itself.

Most philosophers have known, at least since around 500 B.C., that the world perceived by our senses is not "the real world" but a construct we create - our own private work of art. Modern science began with Galileo's demonstration that color is not "in" objects but "in" the interaction of our senses with objects. Despite this philosophic and scientific knowledge of neurological relativity, which has been more clearly demonstrated with each major advance in instrumentation, we still, due to language, think that behind the flowing, meandering, inter-acting, evolving universe created by perception is one solid monolithic "reality" hard and crisply outlined as an iron bar.

chairman wao said...

Uh oh time for spammed in pop-quantum physics from Byro the dyslexic wiccan, and the old charlatan RA Wilson, and probably one of his cronies, aka McStupid

THat's part of his Subluxation MO as well. He doesn't know an integral from his fave LDS Elder-master

Hagbard Celine said...

Quantum physics has undermined that Platonic iron-bar "reality" by showing that it makes more sense scientifically to talk only of the inter-actions we actually experience (our operations in the laboratory) ; and perception psychology has undermined the Platonic "reality" by showing that assuming it exists leads to hopeless contradictions in explaining how we actually perceive that a hippopotamus is not a symphony orchestra.

The only "realities" (plural) that we actually experience and can talk meaningfully about are perceived realities, experienced realities, existential realities -- realities involving ourselves as editors -- and they are all relative to the observer, fluctuating, evolving, capable of being magnified and enriched, moving from low resolution to hi-fi, and do not fit together like the pieces of a jig-saw into one single Reality with a capital R. Rather, they cast illumination upon one another by contrast, like the paintings in a large museum, or the different symphonic styles of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Mahler.

Alan Watts may have said it best of all: "The universe is a giant Rorschach ink-blot." Science finds one meaning in it in the 18th Century, another in the 19th, a third in the 20th; each artist finds unique meanings on other levels of abstraction; and each man and woman finds different meanings at different hours of the day, depending on the internal and external environments.

This book deals with what I have called induced brain change, which Dr. John Lilly more resoundingly calls "metaprogramming the human bio-computer." In simple Basic English, as a psychologist and novelist, I set out to find how much rapid re-organization was possible in the brain functioning of one normal domesticated primate of average intelligence -- the only one on whom I could ethically perform such risky research - myself.

Like most people who have historically attempted such "metaprogramming," I soon found myself in metaphysical hot water. It became urgently obvious that my previous models and metaphors would not and could not account for what I was experiencing. I therefore had to create new models and metaphors as I went along. Since I was dealing with matters outside consensus reality-tunnels, some of my metaphors are rather extraordinary. That does not bother me, since I am at least as much an artist as a psychologist, but it does bother me when people take these metaphors too literally.

I beg you, gentle reader, to memorize the quote from Aleister Crowley at the beginning of Part One and repeat it to yourself if at any point you start thinking that I am bringing you the latest theological revelations from Cosmic Central.

What my experiments demonstrate - what all such experiments throughout history have demonstrated - is simply that our models of "reality" are very small and tidy, the universe of experience is huge and untidy, and no model can ever include all the huge untidiness perceived by uncensored consciousness.

I think, or hope, that my data also demonstrates that neurological model agnosticism - the application of the Copenhagen Interpretation beyond physics to consciousness itself - allows one to escape from certain limits of mechanical emotion and robot mentation that are inescapable as longa s one remains within one dogmatic model or one imprinted reality tunnel.

Personally I also suspect, or guess, or intuit, that the more unconventional of my models here - the ones involving Higher Intelligence, such as the Cabalistic Holy Guardian Angel or the extraterrestrial from Sirius - are necessary working tools at certain stages of the metaprogramming process.

Hagbard Celine said...

That is, whether such entities exist anywhere outside our own imaginations, some areas of brain functioning cannot be accessed without using these "keys" to open the locks. I do not insist on this; it is just my own opinion. Some people seem to get through this area of Chapel Perilous without such personalized "Guides." I know of one chap who did it by imagining a super-computer in the future that was sending information backwards in time to his brain. More clever people may find even less "metaphysical" metaphors.

Ten years after the point at which this book ends, I do not care much about such speculations. Our lonely little selves can be "illuminated" or flooded with radical science-fiction style information and cosmic perspectives, and the source of this may be those extraterrestrials who seemed to be helping me at times, or the Secret Chiefs of Sufism, or the parapsychologists and/or computers of the 23rd Century beaming data backward in time, or it may just be the previously unactivated parts of our own brains. Despite the current reign of our New Inquisition, which attempts to halt research in this area, we will learn more about that as time passes. Meanwhile, agnosticism is both honest and becomingly modest....

In this connection, I am often asked about two books by other authors which are strangely resonant with Cosmic Trigger - namely VALIS by Philip K. Dick and The Sirian Experiment by Doris Lessing. VALIS is a novel which broadly hints that it is more than a novel - that it is an actual account of Phil Dick's own experience with some form of "Higher Intelligence." In fact, VALIS is only slightly fictionalized; the actual events on which it is based are recounted in a long interview Phil gave shortly before his death (see Philip K. Dick: The Last Testament, by Gregg Rickman.) The parallels with my own experience are numerous - but so are the differences. If the same source was beaming ideas to both Phil and me, the messages got our individual flavors mixed into them as we decoded the signals.

I met Phil Dick on two or three occasions and corresponded with him a bit. My impression was that he was worried that his experience was a temporary insanity and was trying to figure out if I was nutty, too. I'm not sure if he ever decided.

I interviewed Doris Lessing a few years ago for New Age magazine. She takes synchronicities very seriously, but was as agnostic as I am about the possibility that some of them are orchestrated by Sirians.

I heartily recommend all three volumes - VALIS, The Last Testament and The Sirian Experiments - to readers of this book. Unless you are locked into a very dogmatic reality-tunnel, you will have a few weird moments of wondering if Sirians are experimenting on us, and a few weird moments can be a liberating experience for those who aren't scared to death by them.

What is more important than such extra-mundane speculation, I think, are practical and pragmatic questions about what one does with the results of brain change experience. It is quite easy, I have discovered by meeting many New Age people, to use the techniques in this book and go stone crazy with them. Paranoid and schizophrenic cases are quite common among those who experiment in this area. Less clinical, but socially even more nefarious, are the leagues of self-proclaimed gurus and their equally deluded disciples, who have discovered, as I did, that there are many realities (plural), but have picked out one favorite non-Occidental reality-tunnel, named it Ultimate Reality or True Reality, and established new fanaticisms, snobberies, dogmas and cults around these delusions.

Hagbard Celine said...

There is a great deal of lyrical Utopianism in this book. I do not apologize for that, and do not regret it. The decade that has passed since the first edition has not altered my basic commitment to the game-rule that holds that an optimistic mind-set finds dozens of possible solutions for every problem that the pessimist regards as incurable.

Since we all create our habitual reality-tunnels, either consciously and intelligently or unconsciously and mechanically, I prefer to create for each hour the happiest, funniest, and most romantic reality-tunnel consistent with the signals my brain apprehends. I feel sorry for people who persistently organize experience into sad, dreary and hopeless reality tunnels, and try to show them how to break the bad habit, but I don't feel any masochistic duty to share their misery.

This book does not claim that you "create your own reality" in the sense of total (but mysteriously unconscious) psychokinesis. If a car hits you and puts you in the hospital, I do not believe this is because you "really wanted" to be hit by a car, or that you "needed" to be hit by a car, as two popular New Age bromides have it. The theory of transactional psychology, which is the source of my favorite models and metaphors, merely says that, once you have been hit by a car, the meaning of the experience depends entirely on you and the results depend partly on you (and partly on your doctors). If it is medically possible for you to live -- and sometimes even if the doctors think it is medically impossible - you ultimately decide whether to get out of the hospital in a hurry or to lie around suffering and complaining.

Most of the time, this kind of "decision" is unconscious and mechanical, but with the techniques described in this book, such decisions can become conscious and intelligent.

Hagbard Celine said...

The last part of this book deals with the worst tragedy of my life. I want to say, without self-pity (a vice I despise) that my years on this planet have included many other terrible and punishing experiences, starting with two bouts of polio when I was a child and including dozens of other things I don't want to complain about in public. When I write of creating a better and more optimistic reality-tunnel, of transcending ego-games, and of similar matters, it is not because I have lived in an ivory tower. It is because I have learned a few practical techniques for dealing with the brutal conditions on this primitive planet.

People at my lectures and seminars usually ask me if I am still optimistic about civilian space programs and life extension. I am more optimistic than ever. Despite the seemingly terminal case of rigidicus bureaucraticus at NASA, I have reason to believe certain European countries will soon jointly launch the kind of space migration effort advocated here; and Reagan's SDI, for all its jingoism, means that more money will be spent on basic research than at any previous time in history.

On the life extension front, there have been several best-sellers on the subject since this book first appeared; there is interest even in the most intellectually backward part of U.S. society (namely, the Congress); and scientists in the longevity field whom I have met recently all cheerfully say they are getting more money for research than in the 70s. The breakthrough cannot be far away.

Finally as a matter of some entertainment value, not all the mail I have received about this book has been intelligent and thoughtful. I have received several quite nutty and unintentionally funny poison-pen letters from two groups of dogmatists - Fundamentalist Christians and Fundamentalist Materialists.

The Fundamentalist Christians have told me that I am a slave of Satan and should have the demons expelled with an exorcism. The Fundamentalist Materialists inform me that I am a liar, a charlatan, fraud and scoundrel. Aside from this minor difference, the letters are astoundingly similar. Both groups share in the same crusading zeal and the same total lack of humor, charity, and common human decency.

These intolerable cults have served to confirm me in my agnosticism by presenting further evidence to support my contention that when dogmas enter the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.

- RAW, Dublin 1986

Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

plagiarism time, with the usual stupid occultic BS from the Subluxanator. You don't know f**k about the Copenhagen interpretation, idjut

How white wicca trash from Sac works

Hagbard Celine said...

The last part of this book deals with the worst tragedy of my life. I want to say, without self-pity (a vice I despise) that my years on this planet have included many other terrible and punishing experiences, starting with two bouts of polio when I was a child and including dozens of other things I don't want to complain about in public. When I write of creating a better and more optimistic reality-tunnel, of transcending ego-games, and of similar matters, it is not because I have lived in an ivory tower. It is because I have learned a few practical techniques for dealing with the brutal conditions on this primitive planet.

People at my lectures and seminars usually ask me if I am still optimistic about civilian space programs and life extension. I am more optimistic than ever. Despite the seemingly terminal case of rigidicus bureaucraticus at NASA, I have reason to believe certain European countries will soon jointly launch the kind of space migration effort advocated here; and Reagan's SDI, for all its jingoism, means that more money will be spent on basic research than at any previous time in history.

On the life extension front, there have been several best-sellers on the subject since this book first appeared; there is interest even in the most intellectually backward part of U.S. society (namely, the Congress); and scientists in the longevity field whom I have met recently all cheerfully say they are getting more money for research than in the 70s. The breakthrough cannot be far away.

Finally as a matter of some entertainment value, not all the mail I have received about this book has been intelligent and thoughtful. I have received several quite nutty and unintentionally funny poison-pen letters from two groups of dogmatists - Fundamentalist Christians and Fundamentalist Materialists.

The Fundamentalist Christians have told me that I am a slave of Satan and should have the demons expelled with an exorcism. The Fundamentalist Materialists inform me that I am a liar, a charlatan, fraud and scoundrel. Aside from this minor difference, the letters are astoundingly similar. Both groups share in the same crusading zeal and the same total lack of humor, charity, and common human decency.

These intolerable cults have served to confirm me in my agnosticism by presenting further evidence to support my contention that when dogmas enter the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.

- RAW, Dublin 1986

Asura,Troll of Light said...

hasta la buh bye, Hoss Kartwright-on-crack

Anonymous said...

Sex before marriage is also very bad

Hagbard Celine said...

The last part of this book deals with the worst tragedy of my life. I want to say, without self-pity (a vice I despise) that my years on this planet have included many other terrible and punishing experiences, starting with two bouts of polio when I was a child and including dozens of other things I don't want to complain about in public. When I write of creating a better and more optimistic reality-tunnel, of transcending ego-games, and of similar matters, it is not because I have lived in an ivory tower. It is because I have learned a few practical techniques for dealing with the brutal conditions on this primitive planet.

People at my lectures and seminars usually ask me if I am still optimistic about civilian space programs and life extension. I am more optimistic than ever. Despite the seemingly terminal case of rigidicus bureaucraticus at NASA, I have reason to believe certain European countries will soon jointly launch the kind of space migration effort advocated here; and Reagan's SDI, for all its jingoism, means that more money will be spent on basic research than at any previous time in history.

On the life extension front, there have been several best-sellers on the subject since this book first appeared; there is interest even in the most intellectually backward part of U.S. society (namely, the Congress); and scientists in the longevity field whom I have met recently all cheerfully say they are getting more money for research than in the 70s. The breakthrough cannot be far away.

Finally as a matter of some entertainment value, not all the mail I have received about this book has been intelligent and thoughtful. I have received several quite nutty and unintentionally funny poison-pen letters from two groups of dogmatists - Fundamentalist Christians and Fundamentalist Materialists.

The Fundamentalist Christians have told me that I am a slave of Satan and should have the demons expelled with an exorcism. The Fundamentalist Materialists inform me that I am a liar, a charlatan, fraud and scoundrel. Aside from this minor difference, the letters are astoundingly similar. Both groups share in the same crusading zeal and the same total lack of humor, charity, and common human decency.

These intolerable cults have served to confirm me in my agnosticism by presenting further evidence to support my contention that when dogmas enter the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.

- RAW, Dublin 1986

chairman wao said...

Drugs did not make everybody become beautiful and loving and spiritual aware. Instead they led to death and crime and waste. Lots of my friends were bright young consciousness explorers when they were the age these kids I hung out with are now. Some cleaned up, some became waste cases, a few are dead.

For the most part, yes.

Your anti-dope screed has pissed off some NorCal druggie scumbags, however, Guru Brad. Hence the troll invasion (ie RA Wilson's horrid wicca BS).

Awakened Yeti said...

its ok brad, you are so much better than everyone else, you dont need anything except your own hubris to keep you absolutely satisfied

put that in your pipe and smoke it

Malaclypse The Younger said...

Delete them all and let Eris sort them out.

10101001 said...

Maybe we link your trite pop-quantum and plagiarized occultic crap to like your preacher, or fundamentalist christian/mormon palsies, eh, BongRon (however crass, RAWilson could write a bit, unlike the BongRon the Subluxanator..).

Hicks never stop--on drugs, they're even worse.

PhilBob-SquareHead said...

I love the works of RAWilson.
I love Roky and the 13th Floor Elevators.
And I would tell any young poetry loving student to investigate absinthe-sipping Rimbaud along with beer-swilling Bukowski.

I no longer drink. I don't use drugs. But I acknowledge the great art of some of the most hardcore addicts in history.

Ah Heng said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

Bukowski that semi-talented bum, w'd take a swing at you for that were he still alive -- putting him togetha with hippie-occultists.As would Tijean

Wilson sux

Ah Heng said...

Brad, from one Buddhist to another: I don't think you are right about right speech.

guru SchopenhauerX9Xiiooxx said...

the western-dimwit-mystic tends to read eastern religions as spinoza-or wicca-like nature mysticism-- when they're not. Or, conversely, the...lapsed christian or jew views them as theistic-. Not that either, exactly.

Which is to say, the vast majority of...western pretas don't understand the conceptual basis of the dharma, regardless of how many years they contemplate their navels.

10101001 said...

as with Bellamy, acidhead and mental institution escapee, for like 20 years (ie from the linked site New Worlds/HW industries).

This fat byatch, who liked flunked his first year at ASU< 250 lbs, 6-3 has lied for 25 years, threatening people and relatives, raping women (allegedly), making up lies routinely, etc.

Now he's going to pay the piper

Awakened Yeti said...

you know you've hit the mother-lode when even the sociopaths are crying out for justice

chairman wao said...

who would that be, Yeti byatch?

Defend mormon texan-acid trash, puto and you might be in for some trouble. Got that zen man

MaryJ said...

I used to smoke a lot of pot. It sometimes would show me insights into my life that didn't occur to me when I was straight - or so I thought. But after a while I realized that I was smoking pot so that I could pretend my life was something that it was not. It was a lie I was telling myself every time I smoked the stuff. I think most drug use involves a similar lie. Everyone's lie is probably different but it amounts to the same thing - wanting to pretend your life is somehow cooler than it is because you don't want to face the truth. I finally decided that reality, even if it sucked, was better than any lie I wanted to keep telling myself.

Awakened Yeti said...

dont worry, its comin

Anonymous said...

Yeti shi-eti. He's a cigar smoker.

DB said...

Some good writing and a well-reasoned blog post here, Brad.

Hagbard Celine said...

That was an excellent demonstration of how communication with a person operating primarily in the second circuit of consciousness will typically only result in meaningless, angry noises.

http://www.rawilson.com/prometheus.html

Anonymous said...

Lost among the noise...

While many Buddhists interviewed said they were excited about Kalachakra and believed it will bring a more peaceful climate, some have reservations.

"It's no more going to establish world peace than Live Aid or one of those things, or any average rock concert. I'm all for freeing Tibet. But there's nothing particularly Buddhist about that," said Brad Warner, an Ohio-based Soto Zen priest and author.

"People who go will pat themselves on the back for being Buddhists by virtue of attending some big commercial feel-good gathering. That's not Buddhism," he added.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/06/dalai-lama-world-peace_n_891289.html

Anonymous said...

Episode 69 :: Dr. Roland Griffiths :: Psilocybin and Meditation

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_069.php


Drugs and the Meaning of Life

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/



________________________________



Episode 72 :: David McMahan :: The Making of Buddhist Modernism

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_072.php

Anonymous said...

What IS "Buddhism," Brad?

Word Verification: standup

Anonymous said...

yr Wilson quack's in Hell. wit' his fellow charlatans


(also present in trad. buddhism..Naraka..)

Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

the usual white trash McMason who's ingested dope thinks...all religions are like...his white trash stoner freemasonry. Wit' some Jung, dewd


Korzybski was a quack as well (and you don't know f**k about that either--wait, google e-prime real quick, and yr an expert)

Yoda said...

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

Awakened Yeti said...

watch out for the devil, too

and go clean your room, it stinks like a garbage pit

Anonymous said...

Naraka...

Preta...

...meaningless words from a mythical medieval cosmology.

Sit down.

Shut up.

Wake up.

Asura,Troll of Light said...

No no, stupid fuck. As with say platonism, the terms of early buddhism are from a complex code (and ancient pre-judaic language --sanskrit) quite beyond yr techie-newage McQuackeries, and quasi-counseling.
You need to listen. Actually, you need to be arrested

Anonymous said...

Asura...

Naraka...

Preta...

...meaningless words from a mythical medieval cosmology.

Sit down.

Shut up.

Wake up.

Pretaville said...

Callate, preta

'Merican McZen in action. Since sanskrit scares you, basura, try chinese


You never quite got even Korzybskis errors....what you perceive, and try to write about it...is not what ..Guru Brad sees. or the Yeti. or best palsie BongRon the Mormon, or Slaboj Zizek, your neighbor, or the human race. You could be quite ...delusional, and not even realize it. And indeed that's the case. So, say "seems", to you--- not "is". Yr dharma lesson, trash.


( not unrelated to the problem of other minds, but thats a bit too deep for you)

Anonymous said...

Sit down.

Shut up.

Wake up.

10101001 said...

Callate, blanca basura

Ingles: la lengua de la basura zionista-masonicas, y escoto-mierda


booodha no habla inggles

Anonymous said...

Sit down.

Shut up.

Wake up.

10101001 said...

chinga tu madre, Klan-McZen

10101001 said...

todas de "Stanford U"--e.g., Sam Harris, Condi Rice, Diane Feinstein, putos de Google, etc---nada mas que la mierda del MUNDO.

heh heh

Anonymous said...

Sit down.

Shut up.

Wake up.

Anonymous said...

Just...Shut up.

10101001 said...

chinga su madre, judia-puerca, Klan mierda

Anonymous said...

fuck you, white klan trash, mormon neo-con queers. this isn't he Mitt Romneyoid site, basura, mierda, jota

Anonymous said...

u mad, mike?

Anonymous said...

fuck u , mormonic-zionist trash.

thats yr enlightenment, satanists

Anonymous said...

u cross, mike?

10101001 said...

no.

Boodha or Plato, y Issa o Mohammed no hablan ingles. Comprendes?


eh shallah

Awakened Yeti said...

why stop now? you are just getting to the good stuff!

Anonymous said...

Shouting into a dark well.

Impermanence means Brad will eventually switch his opinion. Don't get so upset.

Awakened Yeti said...

yeh dont get your panties twisted, ladies

Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

the Discordian wannabes don't even read their wizard-quacks correctly.


Maybe there's an ebonics Korzybski somewhere for the scientology-LDS jaggoffs. "Seems", not "is". That untalented phony RA Wilson granted that, in moments of sanity.

10101001 said...

You're just another perp-chester Yeti. Pal of mormons as well, looks like.

Even Richie Dawkins pisses on mormons ......and occultists .

Juan Valdez said...

Apparently some people can't even consume caffeine without adverse side effects.

Just say "no" to irrational rage.

Horselover fats said...

Strangest thread in awhile. fer shure.

10101001 said...

irrational---heh. that's the LDS-masonic swine who are destroying whats left of the USA.

RA Wilson that blowhard libertarian wd agree (and still haven't got ebonics Korzybski do you). RAW valued the US Constitution unlike most of the morons who try to read him

Anonymous said...

Uh oh, more pseudo-intellectual references..PK Dick. You don't know fock about PKD either, phony (a christian, actually)


sedate mormons/WASPS/zionists now

Anonymous said...

So many comments, so little content.

10101001 said...

more like you don't understand it, McManson, anymore than you understand Korzybski, logic, Jung, freud, quantum physics, et al.


Zen's not for wicca queers, like you joe-joe, or yr mormon boy, Bubba Belle

anonymous anonymous said...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYEEsXe4eF0

gniz said...

Who are all these people that seem to know each other? I cant follow it for the life of me...Harry, someone, Mumbles, 108, help me make sense of this madness!

PS Still prefer it to Mysterion BTW

Anonymous said...

Pretaville, 10101001, etc.,

Do you actually believe that you have any knowledge or experience of Zen or any other sect of Buddhism?

Because I haven't seen any evidence of it.

All that I've seen looks like angry, delusional, incoherent, rambling sentence fragments.

If that's your definition of Zen, you might consider checking a different dictionary.

Anonymous said...

gniz,

It looks to me like it's one paranoid yelling at the Anonymice who he believes are actually his many imaginary enemies.

But that's just my best theory at this time. It's hard to make any sense out of it. It could also just be a troll trying to get a rise out of people. After all, this is the internet.

Anonymous said...

Drugs "work" by fucking up your neurotransmitters. Regardless of the pretty colors or even if you had genuine insight while poisoning yourself (and there is no other more accurate descriptor no matter how much you like it), you are poisoning yourself to do so.

It's hardly a choice of, say, chemo-therapy or radiation-therapy to alter your state. It's poison for it's own sake, to "see what happens."

I'm sorry but where's the debate here?

--Matt

Corpse of L-BongRon Hubblard said...

Ah it's the hick trolls again. More like this, Anny McPreta: you detest all eastern religions (ie, your comment, or that of yr buttboy's above to quit using the sanskrit terms) and are really another hick christian--tho even xtians/LDS these days are into occult/kabbalah BS, ala RA Wilson, quack libertarian (then you don't understand his schtick, either). The usual white trash derailment

booodha never pledged to a frat

anonymous anonymous said...

Does anyone think mysterion isn't still blogging full time here.. What does it mean for him to announce he's taking two months off from Brad's blog but then to continue on anyway as anonymous or whoever.. Why even bother keeping up this charade? No one cares one way or the other. He's a weird dude.

Jim Parker said...

Ram Dass, aka Richard Alpert in his later books is not nearly so positive about drugs. In one of them he relates a story of giving LSD to his guru. The drug had no effect on the guru. Meditation is pretty powerful stuff all by itself.

Anonymous said...

trace the anonymous anonymous


yll discover a fat white supremacist from Sac-turd behind it, stalking people here.


--Jus STFU hick. Like you don't know fuck about musick (holy bass clef 101--maybe like yr first...major triad!) or science, you don't know fock about zen. Stick to tee-shirts, basura. Whoa Archies-tees from Bubba

Leah McClellan said...

Interesting how blog topics this weekend are hitting on drugs (a few I follow). Now that's higher consciousness and how everyone is interconnected, seems to me. Or is it Just Say No week, or something?

I've never understood how drugs can have anything to do with spirituality or higher consciousness or anything other than what it is: a drug. I say that with due respect to whatever groups there are in the world who have chewed peyote or whatever for centuries and centuries in tribal ceremonies or whatever. But other than that (which I don't know much about so I can't make any opinion) I don't see the point.

As a teenager in the late 70s, I did plenty of the above mentioned, including what passed for LSD--or so I was told. Supposedly you can't (or we couldn't) get "the real thing" anymore or it just wasn't pure anymore. But anyway, the experience was kind of like meditating and watching the thoughts flit by and all that except they were all distorted and dumb stuff was hysterically funny. I didn't really like it. I didn't want to be anyone except me and my own own brain. It was a waste of time. Senseless. Plus, as noted in the post, people involved in drugs aren't exactly doing their bodies or minds a favor. Some people I knew back then are dead (suicides and some ODs), completely brain fried as in brain damaged (especially a few who seemed proud and admired as the biggest acid heads around--they were kind of like "nobody in there" even back then), or they've been in and out of jail.

Some friends thought mushrooms were the next best thing to sliced bread and I was like no, thanks. I like my own head very much, thank you. Never touched them, though I'm kind of a fearless explorer in many other areas. But that, nah. I can get on a plane if I want to take a trip.

That stage of mine was brief but I learned from it--and glad I did--that I can go pretty much wherever I want to without any pharmaceutical help, even just on a cushion.

I don't see the point in taking hallucinogenic drugs at all. It's not real. And lots of creative people (e.g. Stephen King and a few others; I forget at the moment) thought they couldn't create without their drugs. They found out they could when they quit, and it was so much better.

My .02.

Anonymous said...

Jundo and Taigu have started up a real nice shit storm over at ZFI: http://www.zenforuminternational.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6926

anon #108 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
anon #108 said...

An anonymous wrote, re recreational drugging: "It's poison for it's own sake, to "see what happens."

Yes, you can say that. But you only live once ;)

I don't mind that some people have never felt the need to "see what happens", or that they believe those that have are losers. The fact remains that some of us have responded enthusiastically to the invitation "Hey! Wanna see what happens?"

I have nothing but fond memories of my early pot-smoking years. I have mixed feelings about my subsequent 25+ year heroin addiction.

I haven't taken heroin for 6 years and advise others not to try it. I've smoked pot three times in the last 30 years and thoroughly enjoyed it. I've never been a regular drinker but I enjoy occasionally getting drunk, too. What you do is your business.

***********************
Hi Leah,

I agree that doing drugs has nothing much to do with doing zazen. Being stoned is not at all the same as quiet sitting. But to exclude some experiences - or methods of inducing them - from inclusion in the notion "real" assumes a peculiarly restrictive definition of reality. (I'm only commenting on notions and definitions, not advocating things to do).

*************************
Hey gniz!

Who are all these people that seem to know each other?

Ha! 5.40pm gets close to how it reads to me...that's all I got.

Anonymous said...

Episode 69 :: Dr. Roland Griffiths :: Psilocybin and Meditation

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_069.php



Drugs and the Meaning of Life

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/



________________________________



Episode 72 :: David McMahan :: The Making of Buddhist Modernism

http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_072.php

Anonymous said...

An Ordinary Person's Life

The story of Ch'an Master Teshan; through Ch'an (Zen) the Chinese make Buddhism their own - a similar challenge faces us in the West today; the practice of 'What is this?' is the practice of the First Noble Truth: dukkha; how Zen fits into the context of the Four Truths; the Four Truths and the Four Great Vows; the self who practices the path is neither existent nor non-existent; Layman P'ang: chopping wood and carrying water.

http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/169/?page=1



Japanese Zen master Sesso warned, “There is little to choose between a man lying in the ditch heavily drunk on rice liquor, and a man heavily drunk on his own ‘enlightenment’!”

guru SchopenhauerX9Xiiooxx said...

real zen starts with a bullet in the head of Sam Skinner Harris, BushCo apologist

john e mumbles said...

Hey gniz, not sure what's happened here, I was away after 11:45 AM two days ago, but prior to that as you can see from the thread was having what seemed to be a rational back and forth (well, as rational as I get).

Went south, though, hope I didn't inadvertently inspire some recreational abuse...

I'd go along with 108, 5:40 PM seems to sum it up; and prior to that, 12:17 PM, would be my last word on it, too.

Good luck to whoever it is that thinks we're listening/ understanding their rants...rock on.

Anon said...

gniz said: "Who are all these people that seem to know each other? I cant follow it for the life of me...Harry, someone, Mumbles, 108, help me make sense of this madness!"

What it is, is mysterion having one of his 50 coffee days with nothing to do. Most of the above comments are him in a lightly disguised form but the same obsessions as always. Maybe you shouldn't have challenged him gniz. Commenting here as mysterion wasn't just a hobby for the old boy. Now he's completely run amuk.

Anonymous said...

what it is, is mormon-zionist trash--and druggies-- who think Sam Harris has something to say

POP

Arlo-TaylorGMeizlish said...

Brad,

You certainly need not advocate them as essential but you also need not shun them as absolutely worthless. We don't know the whole story on drugs, psychedelics, or hallucinogens just like we don't know what's giving us cancer--we can see some links but not the whole web of causation.

Some of my friends have done drugs and stopped, some have continued--some worse for the wear and others who seem to tolerate it fine.

It works for some and not for others.

Let's just keep an open mind about it. Your experience is absolutely correct.

Soft Troll said...

To #108 who wrote

I don't mind that some people have never felt the need to "see what happens", or that they believe those that have are losers. The fact remains that some of us have responded enthusiastically to the invitation "Hey! Wanna see what happens?"

Hi,

I find an interesting dissonance in the word "losers" catalysing some goodly tripances.

On a demotic level its a splash of cold water. But it also encourages a sip from what - what are you losing?

I think it might be useful to frame it in terms of stealing.

It seems to me that "Hey! Wanna see what happens" is like a petty thief. But we can also talk about the hardcore thief "I wanna get to the bottom of this - hit me!"

In my own experience as a half-wit undergrad I happened to play both roles with myself. The petty thief in me was the kid free, for the first time, of parental limitations, a grant to piss away, and lectures to snooze through. The hardcore thief got head-fucks reading philosophy, instead of revising for the paper on Social Problems and Political Solutions in 19th Century Novel.

The petty thief kept dipping into the sanity hoard for my own 3D surround-sound Lothlorien-cum-student-bedsit experience, and got slack and lazy. But for the hardcore thief, this was just women with beards, trickster palm-readers, and the snakeman. After a few rides at the carnival it was time for the witch-doctor to cast his runes and go hunting for the source.

Surfacing I realised that the petty thief was a stupid kid, screwing around with the facts of a fresh spring morning and the whole day laid out with something he wanted to do; that the hardcore thief wanted to play Russian roulette for his big silly little idea.

Going insane to the point where it all bottoms out recommends the finely tuned organ to leave insanity to its common-a-day whats and hows. There's nothing like the revelation of your profound stupidity, which includes that it ain't so profound, can be found anywhere and at any time without frazzling your finding mechanisms, and sends folk with tears in their eyes to the corner of their own room.

In other words there's better ways to be a loser, a thief - one's that don't involve losing or confusing the plotter.

It seems to me that the petty thiefs in us often end up spinning and being spun by the skewed romantic myths our inner lost child latched onto; and for so long, even if the wheel don't come off, which it can and does, it becomes hard even to recognise where its out of kilter, or why life has ground down to kinds of misery - fulminating listlessness, nihilistic cantankerousness and the like.

I think I understand what your getting at with "What you do is your business",#, but I don't believe it really ever works out that way. It's probably a good working rule of thumb until the all the rest can safely bleed into the heart and mind and find modes to act intimately through and with.

During my non-revision for Social Problems and Political Solutions, a friend close to my heart, and a fine thief, came to my room, said hi, and sat on the bed (keeps on sitting on the bed) apparently just bored. Just Bored! Perhaps a bad title for something that might just fill itself out beyond the pages of a C19th Novel.

captcha: mulably and then trifflu (after mistyping the thing)

Anonymous said...

nada mas que honkays, drogas o no

booodha no habla ingles

john e mumbles said...

If I go back in time and remember the first impulse to experiment with substances I also recall other (straight) times of quiet reflection and meditation.

There was never really any idea that one could create shortcuts to nirvana or otherwise enlighten oneself one way or the other!

There was time for both, for everything, to happen in its own moment. In the words of Pete Seeger via Ecclesiastes and The Byrds...

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to build up,a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones together

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace, a time to refrain from embracing

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late

CAPTCHA: geezer

HA!!!

anon #108 said...

Afternoon, ST.

I believe I get the gist of your reflections (I don't always).

...Nothing there that I want to take issue with, or concerning which I think you need straightening out ;)

Thanks.

***************************
Yes, john e!
That's how it's been for me, too!

Anonymous said...

Sam Harris, author of the New York Times bestsellers, The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, and The Moral Landscape, answers questions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Z5eDXRKzM&feature=player_embedded

10101001 said...

Sam Skinner Harris, voice of neo-con imperialist a-theism

perhaps we link to his pro-war, and pro-torture essays. The Zen of waterboarding, yall.

nada mas que ...blanca

Anonymous said...

@ 10101001 said...

that's hilarious say it again

10101001 said...

ok.

fuck you, white trash, and yr neo-con torturer-in-chief Sam Spam Harris


Guru Chopra however odd he seems, understands the East, unlike the chandala of WarnerCo.

Anonymous said...

Sozan, un maestro Zen chino, se encontro una vez con esta pregunta de un estudiante: "¿Que es lo mas valioso del mundo?"

El maestro respondio: "La cabeza de un gato muerto".

"¿Porque es la cabeza de un gato muerto la cosa mas valiosa del mundo?", pregunto el estudiante.

Sozan respondio: "Porque nadie puede ponerle precio".

Anonymous said...

wow time for some googling, bad spanish, and misunderstanood Mc zen


tu eres un gato muerto, y no valioso, tambien.

Anonymous said...

@ 10101001 said...

fuck off homo

Chubble Telescope said...

anoymous anonymous claims the deranged party is mysterion, but if yu look closely it seems more like his pal ran off his meds, por favor.

Anonymous said...

yr the homo Byro mormon-jew, ROmney boy, theatre queer, Harris-lover like yr topman wiccan McManson

hasta la buh bye neo-con basura

Anonymous said...

callete puta

no hablas espanol

eres una poser

Anonymous said...

Sam Harris's position on torture:

"In The End of Faith, I argue that competing religious doctrines have divided our world into separate moral communities and that these divisions have become a continuous source of human violence. My purpose in writing the book was to offer a way of thinking about our world that would render certain forms of conflict, quite literally, unthinkable."

"In one section of the book (pp. 192-199), I briefly discuss the ethics of torture and collateral damage in times of war, arguing that collateral damage is worse than torture across the board. Rather than appreciate just how bad I think collateral damage is in ethical terms, some readers have mistakenly concluded that I take a cavalier attitude toward the practice of torture. I do not."

Soft Troll said...

To Anon #108

Hi,

I hope you didn't read what I'd written as intended to be personal to you. My ramblings upon "What you do is your business", were intended to convey a sense that, although we have a life to explore in our own way, we're always recycling our lives into and out of others; that there are so many little thefts and pollutions that I increasing find as my/our collective business. From this perspective, I find the very responsible attitude of "what you do is your business" might also foreclose or blind-side me to what my doing can do business with.

Not so much a 'straightening out', as an increasing openness to the asymmetries my business goes by, along with all the little griefs these actions cleave.

I have a bad habit of addressing someone or picking out something they've written as a point of departure, which runs the risk of suggesting a lot of what I ruminate on is in some way intended to refer personally to them. A straightening up, perhaps.

I thought I'd take care whatever the situation, to let you know that I wasn't tending my laxing wyricals as personal medicine.

Anonymous said...

it's callate, google gomer

and Anny Byro the theatre-flunkie puto upset after his mormon-fag hero Romney was insulted. how predictable

nada mas que ...........chandala

Anonymous said...

Sammy has some qualms about torture--except when it helps out the USA and...Israel. Maybe read his little ugly essay--or pay someone to, and have them explain it to you, LDS-mierda

Harris-Typical neo-con utilitarian garbage

anon #108 said...

I hope you didn't read what I'd written as intended to be personal to you.

Not at all, ST. The "straightening out" thing was an attempt to acknowledge my usual motive for wanting to respond to what others write.

Certainly what I do is never solely my business, not in the sense that I ever act in isolation or that others are not impacted by my business. But my business and the impact it makes is still just my business. In a sense.

Out for the evening.
Laters!

Soft Troll said...

To anon #108

In a sense

Yes! And I would add that how we express that 'in a sense' is a case of the genuis of language being the Jinn of the language.

Anonymous said...

All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.

Anonymous said...

that doesn't make any sense.

Anonymous said...

Stop making sense!

guru SchopenhauerX9Xiiooxx said...

the hick-mystic-mason thinks that zen-nonsense refutes logic, reason, and science.

Then the hick-mystic-mason never knew jack about logic, Reason or science anyway.

NellaLou said...

Soft Troll 7:56 wrote:

"There's nothing like the revelation of your profound stupidity, which includes that it ain't so profound..."

Best line in all these comments.

Awakened Yeti said...

so many people praying to raptor jesus

Mike D said...

As a younger person, I was misled by interpretations of Carlos Casteneda books into thinking that mushrooms and weed weren't "real drugs". Well, they are. I was scarred by a few experiences for awhile, and spirituality can't be about tripping your head off so hard that you pee your pants and pass out in a hallway speaking to phantoms. So, thanks Brad for propagating healthful ways of living.

Anonymous said...

Whoever said " ignorance is bliss" wasn't surrounded by it !!!!!!

Anonymous said...

great talks:

2010-04-03 Ten Thousand Things

2010-04-07 A True Person of No Status

http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/169/?page=3

Anonymous said...

DNA was discovered by LSD.

Anonymous said...

PCR amplification of DNA
was also discovered by
LSD
.

Anonymous said...

Psychoactive substances provide a
tremendous scientific tool to study
the biochemical basis of consciousness
(among other things).

Anonymous said...

At age 84, Alexander Shulgin and his
wife Ann, when asked what they could
conclude from their lifetime of explorations
with various phenethylamines and
tryptamines, they answered,
"42 is as good an answer as any."

Anonymous said...

Ha!
I knew the answer was 42!
No more sitting necessary for me!

Anonymous said...

Do you like dirty pictures?

Khru said...

This is probably the worst comment thread I've ever seen on Bradley's blog...

Moon Face Buddha said...

"Drug users annoy the fuck out of me. Losers."

In much the same way that Brad thinks Tim Leary does not understand the Book of the Dead, so it is clear that Brad does not understand the use of entheogens.

They used to say that a Puritan was a man who lived in constant fear that someone somewhere was having fun.

Brad is the kind of buddhist who lives in constant fear that someone somewhere is gaining enlightenment through the use of entheogens.

Soft Troll said...

I live in constant fear that I'm going to gain enlightenment through lung cancer.

merciless said...

Drugs aren't good or bad. And people aren't winners or losers. Except of course for you Brad. You and Charlie Sheen.

Skull island said...

The falcon cannot hear the falconer; things fall apart...


mo' often than not

Anonymous said...

I could not agree with you more about drugs. Those not willing to do the work to sit and find out who they truly are but instead use drugs to pollute themselves and call it a spiritual experience, are seeking something other than themselves.

Harry said...

Gudo Nishijima, in relation to the essence of how we hold/understand the Bodhisattva Precepts:

"No rule is our rule".

Of course, if 'morality' is something exterior or abstract or otherwise remote, then that may well just be adopted as the sort of carte blanche for reasoning and conduct that really doesn't do anyone any good at all.

It may be the difference (albeit just a polarised, provisional difference for the purposes of conversation) between 'no rule is our rule' as an invitation to indulge our various pathologies in new ways and 'no rule is our rule' as a recognition of, and observance of, our terrible responsibility as creators.

It may well be (and I think it is) that people take drugs/ booze for the exact same reason that Brad sits zazen. It may be their expression of bodhicitta. It may even be (dare I use the term?) 'skillful' at times for all Brad knows.

It's certainly often very 'unskillful' as I can attest.

I wonder if Brad can comment on other more interesting aspect of the Precept, such as how we might 'intoxicate' ourselves (and others) with our own viewpoints and opinions. Shooting from the hip(flask) sometimes lacks the cool cordial of reflection on this here shootist methinks.

Regards,

Harry.

Anonymous said...

Hi,
I met Brad @ one of his workshops during Starwood. I have to agree with him on the use of drugs. I tried "the easy way" for 20 years or so. The only thing I got out of that was an empty bank account and lots of time recovering from the hangover from my so called enlightening experiences. I have just returned from my 12th Starwood experience. I will say this about Starwood: If you are into it someone else there will be too. The only other place I've had this experience is @ a Grateful Dead concert. The folks are genuine and non-judgmental. That said, Brad's workshops were a breath of fresh air for me. Thank you!

john e mumbles said...

"No rule is our rule"

is kinda like ol' A.C's:

"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

or a personal fave, The Old Man of the Mountain:

"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted"

Harry said...

is kinda like ol' A.C's:

"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"


Hi John e,

It kinda is alike in the written word, but, in terms of meaning and intended meaning, it was not at all alike in real terms in the old 'Great Beast's' case... which may be an important point.

Regards,

Harry.

Anonymous said...

Circumstantial Propriety

http://vimeo.com/9585907


_____________________

http://danielcoffeen.blogspot.com/2009/11/circumstantial-propriety-and-complexity.html


Consider these two scenarios:

1. A parent tells his teen: "No drinking. And be home by midnight."

2. Another parents tells his teen: "Be safe tonight. And be home by a reasonable hour."

#1 offers a steadfast rule that is external to circumstance.

#2 offers a principle that is of circumstance.

Of course, this circumstance of #2 includes things that seem to exceed the now per se — previous experience, cultural norms, household norms, etc. But these are part of the circumstance, constitutive of the now.

It demands a complex negotiation of a breadth of factors. And it is by no means necessarily "more free." In fact, there are all sorts of insidious forces at work.

I mean only to point out the possibility of an emergent ethics.

Moon Face Buddha said...

Those who call entheogenic practice 'the easy way' clearly know not of what they speak.

Pretaville said...

the wicca-hicks would much prefer the eazy way to McSatori ala the beastly A.C., dope, or Spam Harris. That has little or nothing to do with the 8-fold Path, which does imply certain...moral precepts (or...trad. rinzai)--


(A.C., "a man of unspeakable character" (said Yeats), was a Cambridge boy, knew latin and french, probably a bit of sanskrit, wrote poetry, and pushed a mean game of pawns. The wicca-hicks aren't exactly translating Baudelaire or playing grandmaster level chess are they--mo' like working on their McManson phantasies)

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