Monday, July 25, 2011

Lost Time is Not Found Again


Suicide is stupid.

When I heard that my friend David Coady killed himself, I posted a link to an obituary about him followed by the words, “suicide is stupid.”

I was not trying to say that people who commit suicide are lacking in mental capacity. David Coady was a very smart guy. Maybe too damn smart for his own good. Lots of people who commit suicide are too damn smart for their own good.

I was trying to insult suicide. I was trying to hurt suicide like suicide has hurt me. I could have said, “suicide sucks.” But that didn’t seem to get it. I could have said, “suicide is shit.” But I didn’t think that would be understood. So I said, “suicide is stupid.”

I’m not exactly sure where I first met David Coady. It was probably at the San Francisco Zen Center during one of the times I gave a talk there. But I do clearly remember the first time I really bonded with him. I was walking around Tassajara breaking the rule of not singing by quietly singing the chorus to a Bob Dylan song called Odds And Ends. It’s from his Basement Tapes album. The final line of the chorus is, “lost time will not be found again.”

That line reminded me of the poem that’s carved into all of the hans at Tassajara. A han is a little wooden board that’s struck with a wooden mallet to call people to zazen or other events. On each one is written a translation of the following Chinese poem.

生死事大
無常迅速
光陰可惜
時不待人

Shou ji ji dai
Mu jou jin soku
Kou in oshimu beshi
Toki hitowo matazu
(This Japanese phonetic translation does not follow the Chinese exactly)

Great is the matter of Birth and death
Life slips quickly by
To waste time is a great shame
Time waits for no one

There are different translations on each han at Tassajara. I’ve posted a photo of the han that was nearest to my room when I stayed there last summer. I wrote a piece about this poem last year.

David immediately recognized what I was singing. He told me that he was a great fan of Dylan. He said that before he moved to Tassajara he’d had a massive collection of CDs. The only ones he’d brought with him were a set of bootlegs of rare Dylan recordings, many from the same sessions that produced the Basement Tapes album. He asked if I wanted to copy them. I did. And the copies of those files are still on the computer I’m using to write this.

Later on a fire swept through the valley in which Tassajara is located. A small group of monks stayed behind and saved most of the monastery from burning. Only a couple of structures burned. One of those was David’s cabin. All of his Bob Dylan CDs melted into goo.

Some time later I bought David a copy of a book called Million Dollar Bash. It’s all about the sessions that produced that Dylan album. I gave the book to him the next time I saw him at the Zen Center.

Maybe a year ago David Coady attempted suicide at the San Francisco Zen Center. He failed that time. I can’t remember if I gave him the book before or after that. I also can’t remember if I copied those Dylan songs off my hard drive onto CDs for him. I think I did. My memory is shit. Always has been. As long as I can remember, anyway.

I know I didn’t see David more than a couple times after his suicide attempt. I know that at least one of the times we talked, the subject came up and we swiftly moved on to other topics. It seemed like it was deeply embarrassing to him.

David Coady was a funny guy. He should have gone on the road with a stand-up act. I told him that once and he said people were always telling him that. He said he didn’t feel he had it in him to talk in front of people. But he was naturally funny and always poignantly so. He was from Boston and talked in a really heavy Boston accent.

I’m very sad that he’s gone now.

Suicide is stupid

85 comments:

spice said...

I love you.

Anonymous said...

Dieing into now before you die.
Letting the self go, there is no
one to lose time.
Vigourously abiding in each moment.

Corbie said...

My dad died of cancer last Monday, and even though it was cancer it still feels a little like a suicide because it was a completely preventable, curable cancer, and if he'd gotten it looked at in time (and people were telling him to do so), he'd probably still be alive.
He left some notes to the effect that he felt like he'd been a failure. His Aspergers traits and his fundamentalist Christianity certainly both hindered his career, and for many years my parents were just scraping by financially. He was a brilliant, funny man, but too rigid in many ways.
I wish he'd had more compassion, both for himself and for others.ini

Anonymous said...

Julia Sweeney - Letting Go of God Part 13-13

starting @ 6:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNFo7Mo92lI&feature=related


Symphony of Science - 'We Are All Connected' (ft. Sagan, Feynman, deGrasse Tyson & Bill Nye)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk&feature=relmfu

Symphony of Science - 'The Unbroken Thread' (ft. Attenborough, Goodall, Sagan)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOLAGYmUQV0&feature=relmfu

john e mumbles said...

For weeks I've been working with a team to try to find the optimum housing/living/case managed situation for an individual with schizophrenic (and) bi-polar delusional disorder(s) who daily sends out threatening anonymous e-mails (sound familiar??). He considers most others as inferiors, and therefore (in his e-mails) dehumanizes them, however, the possibility of suicidal tendencies is also apparent in the individual. What follows is an exchange I had with the collaborating pyschiatrist on our team this morning...

psychiatrist:
I hope my psychophilosophical generalization about dehumanization and murderousness doesn’t find actual expression in his particular case. (He isn’t Norwegian, is he? --sardonic humor, BTW) Theologically, in case you’re inclined to think this way, the dehumanization, the “objectification”, in the terminology of John-Paul II, is the actual “murder”, even more than the act of disrupting the physical body of another person.)

Me:
Interesting John Paul II observation, maybe I’m just not theologically bent (so to speak!) but it seems to me that there are degrees of psychological and physiological dehumanization, the actual disruption of the body being the most extreme, although obviously the ongoing long-term mental torture of a human being can be a kind of living Hell, …theologically speaking (after all...).

Suicide may be the ultimate disruption of both body/mind, a resolution to the full spectrum of distorted self-experience.

Shundo said...

Brad, thanks for these stories about David.

Manny Furious said...

As someone who has known several people who have committed suicide, and who greatly misses these people, I still don't understand why it's considered such a great evil. I think allowing someone to commit suicide is the ultimate in respecting another's "autonomy". I don't have to walk in that person's shoes, so I don't feel like I'm in any kind of position to tell them how to feel or how to act. Of course, I agree with the other poster that suicide is an act of "distorted self-experience". I don't even think that's debatable. That is as close to a truth as language can get. However, I also think it's a bit of distorted self-experience to judge suicide in one way or another.

Or maybe this is just my way of coping with the suicides I have experienced....

Manny Furious said...

On a lighter note, most of my time is spent wasting, and I wouldn't have it any other way....

Anonymous said...

Sorry to hear your friend has passed on Brad :(

Corbie said...

@Manny, I think it depends on the circumstances. I would have fully understood if my dad had decided to end his life in the terminal stages of cancer. The suffering was so great...
However, for someone to end their life because of depression speaks to an inability to escape the whirlpool of thoughts and despair, an inability to feel forgiveness / empathy / compassion either for oneself or one's friends and relatives. And that's what makes it a tragedy. This should be fixable.
And yes, many of those who kill themselves because of depression have a hard time understanding how others see them -- many of them are bright, funny, intelligent people who are held in high esteem by their friends.
The brain is a funny thing, though, and sometimes it gets trapped in a cycle of thought that is hard to escape.

1000 Names of Vishnu said...

Suicide is stupid, tragic, and usually uncalled for--yet..one might say allowable in some circumstances--ie extreme pain/sickness, or distress (ie captured by KGB/ nazis, etc.). Sepukku was part of the Bushido code as well (not sure what the official stance of Zen-co is). It's the biblethumpers and religious zealots (...all the sons of Abraham) who freak out at the mere mention of...self-sacrifice.

Anonymous said...

by Kosho Uchiyama

I eat food from the garden of the universe
I drink water from the fountain of the universe
I breathe the air of the whole universe
My life comes out of the whole universe.
Being pulled by the gravitational force of the whole universe
I become pure and clear.
The whole universe is where I return.

Anonymous said...

1000 Names of Vishnu: yes.. the abrahamic zealots. I've heard that all somewhere before.. can't remember where, but thank you.

Robjones said...

Sincere condolences, sorry to hear about this and thank you for sharing this with us.

1000 names of anonymous said...

Suicide as a Response to Suffering

http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol4/Suicide%20As%20a%20Response%20to%20Suffering2.pdf

1000 names of anonymous said...

Suicide as a Response to Suffering

http://www.westernbudd
histreview.com
/vol4/suicide_as_a_res
ponse_to_suffering.html

Manny Furious said...

@ Corbnie--"However, for someone to end their life because of depression speaks to an inability to escape the whirlpool of thoughts and despair,"

Maybe, but the same can be said about someone who believes suicide is a tragedy because it hurt their feelings. You're not really thinking about the other person, are you, you're thinking about how the person's actions affected "you", but it isn't about you. It's about what the other person was going through.


"an inability to feel forgiveness / empathy / compassion either for oneself or one's friends and relatives."

How do you know? One of my friends who attempted suicide and survived said that it was here empathy/compassion for here friends and family that kept her from attempting suicide for so long. Eventually, the pain got so bad that the only thing she cared about, in her words, was "escaping into oblivion". The fact is you (nor I) have much of a clue of what goes on in the head of someone who's attempting suicide, unless we've done it ourselves. And while I can't speak for you, I can say I've never been in so much pain that death seemed like a viable alternative.

"And that's what makes it a tragedy. This should be fixable."

What do you mean by "fixable"? Who said it needs to be fixed and by whom? It's up to the individual to fix it, or take steps to fix it. I don't believe it's up to me or you or anyone else to tell another that it's wrong to commit suicide. It's a human right. We may not agree with it or like it--I certainly wish I still had my loved ones--but it's not up to us to make such decisions for others.

Anonymous said...

Well said, Brad. Well said!

crookedteef said...

Fuck. I met this guy when I stayed at sfzc. I really liked him. What a loss.

Awakened Yeti said...

Wonder what "Zen" has to say about seppuku?

Seagal Rinpoche said...

Be a lamp unto yourself, be a refuge to yourself. Take yourself to no external refuge.

Anonymous said...

What self?

Soft Troll said...

The drinking and the spilling self.

Corbie said...

@Manny,

No, it's not all about the survivors. It's also (from the point of view of the potential suicide) about having compassion for oneself, forgiving oneself for not living up to some set of expectations, acknowledging that you're not perfect, that you've made mistakes, and that suffering/dissatisfaction (dukkha, right?) is a basic condition of life.

By "fixable" I mean that one way of escaping the trap of suffering is acknowledging the above and moving on, putting one foot in front of the other and not letting one's thoughts trap one in a cycle of despair. If there's a chemical imbalance in the brain, of course, that needs to be addressed too.

I think we have to have compassion for those who felt in such despair that they took their own lives. Declaring suicides "damned", as Christians often do, isn't right. At the same time, I don't think that declaring "they had a right to do it, so it's ok" is helpful in solving the problem that drove them there in the first place. Better to seek to understand the situation and try to find a way out.

Anonymous said...

suicide is painless

Anonymous said...

those are people who died

Anonymous said...

Forgive the morbid curiosity,
but how did he do it?

Hopefully, it was painless.

Anonymous said...

Considering
the Christ Myth and the spirit of the time,
maybe suicide is not so stupid
after all.

I'll take suicide over slavery any day.
Y'know...
"Give me liberty or give me death!"
and all that jazz.

When the assholes and the idiots
have you outnumbered, where else
can you go?

Anonymous said...

go ahead

anonymous anonymous said...

"When the assholes and the idiots
have you outnumbered, where else
can you go?"

You can fight. It's better to fight than to just give up.. because once you're gone, you ain't coming back.

Khru said...

This is probably the worst comment thread I've ever seen on Bradley's blog...

Mike Marinos said...

I am sorry to hear of your loss Brad.

I have lost two sweet, gentle friends recently. What wakes me at night is thinking of their last minutes when they must have been so devastatingly bereft of any ability to see an alternative and to think that the day before they hadn't done it and quite probably the day after the world might have looked different enough so that they might have not done it.

But they are gone - and it just does feel "stupid".

THOMAS AMUNDSEN said...

sad. let's pray for his fortunate rebirth

excalibur.pfff@kingdommaybecome.ohwell said...

Excalibur withdraws his apology @ 2:00 am under the post before the last previous.

Rehn said...

Suicide has nothing to do with what other people think about you. You may live among a very loving community of family and friends. But that really doesn't matter. One commits suicide to relieve themselves of intense internal pain. This is a feeling that clouds everything a chronically depressed person does, sees, and thinks. I was in this situation for years. Understanding that people love you doesn't remove the pain. I was lucky. After four and a half years of severe internal pain, I found medications that helped--I tried over 45 different medications. And I have my life back now. But medication only helps 30% of depressed people. I agree that suicide is stupid. But I understand why people do it. Telling a depressed person that the world is ok does not remove their pain. They have to live with it 24/7. It's exhausting. It doesn't let up. At some point, some people give up the struggle.

Anonymous said...

Did he died?

Hobson's Choice said...

Sorry Brad.

Remember him, from time to time.

Dan_Brodribb said...

Sorry for your loss.

Losing someone to suicide can be a particularly difficult loss to grieve because of the stigma around suicide. It carries a lot of emotional weight for some people, so it can add a lot of extra emotions on top of an already difficult time.

My thoughts are with you and David's friends and family

Anonymous said...

Jesus committed what was tantamount to suicide to put forth a great message. The responsible use of psychedelics and the rooting of Zen in America are historically intertwined. I don't see how you can make absolute statements like, "drug use is wrong" and "suicide is stupid" without taking an extreme position which all enlightened teachers caution against taking...

Anonymous said...

Dropping acid and killing yourself
are both extreme actions. Saying
that they are wrong or stupid is an
attempt to modify extreme positions
seeking to escape from the current
reality. Should a Zen initiate seek
to escape from their perceived
predicament or give full awareness
to what is here now?

So how could a Zen teacher not say
what he said?

Anonymous said...

It's probably been said
before, but...

A glass of pentobarbitol
is far superior to being
tortured by flesh-eating
Nazi zombies.

Remember, in such situations,
when the ammo runs out,
a veterinarian or a good
chemist is the best friend
you could possibly have.

Anonymous said...

Pentobarbital has also been used for physician-assisted suicide. It is used in the US state of Oregon for this purpose [10] and is also used by the Swiss euthanasia group Dignitas. Pentobarbital was also used for this purpose in the Northern Territory of Australia, prior to euthanasia becoming illegal in that region.
In the Netherlands, a pentobarbital elixir is used for physician-assisted suicide (an alternative to euthanasia for patients who wish to take the barbiturate needed for the lethal cocktail themselves, instead of having it administered intravenously, in which case thiopental is used). Pentobarbital has no current therapeutic use in the Netherlands, and is only used for this purpose.
Typically, when orally ingested for euthanasia purposes, an antiemetic drug is swallowed approximately 30 minutes before the lethal overdose of pentobarbital. This is done because large concentrated doses of pentobarbital may cause vomiting.

Anonymous said...

'suicide is stupid' is just another way of saying 'all words fail'

I have come to know of this man, David Coady, only through this blog and the link here to the announcement of his death and responses made by various sfzc members who knew him.
Yet, after reading all this during my lunch break while sitting at my desk today tears streamed down my face I was glad no one interrupted me taking my late lunch. It was a 'good cry', up there among the best of 'good cries' and for a man I've never seen and friends of his I've never met.

I see no difference: heart attack, blood clot, suicide:
Something gives out, something can't do it no more. Whether it's the heart, the vein, the lung, the 'will to go on'... something can't do it no more.

The ripple we are/were continues to ripple.


"There is no suffering, no cause of suffering,
no cessation of suffering, and no path.
There is no wisdom and no attainment."

I am very heartened by the image of paramedics removing this man's body in an impromptu procession with the chanting of the enmei jukku,
how beautiful is that?

wandering spirit
without the ghost of a holy notion
nor hunger or thirst have you any
swallowed whole
the whole of it
nothing to seek
such is this caress of the wind


(in other words...words fail)

Leah McClellan said...

I'm so sorry to read about your loss. I've had a few friends who took their lives as well, and it's so hard. Yes, suicide is stupid and dumb and terrible and awful--not the people who do it but in the sense that it's like a disease that took those people we care about and love away from their lives and us. So sorry--my condolences.

R said...

Just for the record, - 1:46 pm says: - “The responsible use of psychedelics and the rooting of Zen in America are historically intertwined”.

Anonymous said...

I am the child of a suicide, lost a girlfriend and over a dozen close companions to suicide, and have, for reasons I've never quite understood, survived several serious attempts myself. For me, however, deciding to take up the bodhisattva path meant finally confronting the pain and torment that drove that urge. Suicide does not nourish any beings and a bodhisattva does not kill. Your mileage may vary ...

Anonymous said...

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls"
And whispered
And a Boddhisattva does not kill

Awakened Yeti said...

I logged on to twitter and was all like, "Dude, Im Awesome"

and, like, it was so cool

anten said...

Fat is a matter of girth and breath.
Wife swaps quickly cry.
To taste wine is a great game.
Tom Waits for no one.

merciless said...

I enjoy fine wife-tasting myself.

Anonymous said...

73% of all suicide deaths are white males. You would expect that
those who were non-white males
would experience similar dysphoria.
Yet they don't terminate their
existence. This is a problem with
the way the male ego is culturally conditioned.

Anonymous said...

I've recently read Hardcore Zen and am now reading Sit Down and Shut Up (not at this moment of course,but you get the idea). Interesting stuff. I've been reading Buddhist books on and off for 20 years or so and have practiced meditation a few times - but not on a consistent basis.

I grew up in a Christian church but pretty much don't adhere to any set practice or go to church. Anyway a friend of mine who is an Iraq War Veteran has tried to commit suicide twice and ended up in the psych ward. I'm afraid he may succeed one of these days.

By the way, like many people I played in my share of garage bands and had some good times. I relate to the whole Midwest Punk thing. I come from Texas - The birth place of The Butthole Surfers.

motel todd said...

Butthole Surfer Fan - Texas - (wrote comment about Iraq War Vet but forgot name)

Anonymous said...

And death shall have no dominion.
Dead men naked they shall be one
With the man in the wind and the west moon;
When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone,
They shall have stars at elbow and foot;
Though they go mad they shall be sane,
Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again;
Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.

And death shall have no dominion.
Under the windings of the sea
They lying long shall not die windily;
Twisting on racks when sinews give way,
Strapped to a wheel, yet they shall not break;
Faith in their hands shall snap in two,
And the unicorn evils run them through;
Split all ends up they shan't crack;
And death shall have no dominion.

And death shall have no dominion.
No more may gulls cry at their ears
Or waves break loud on the seashores;
Where blew a flower may a flower no more
Lift its head to the blows of the rain;
Though they be mad and dead as nails,
Heads of the characters hammer through daisies;
Break in the sun till the sun breaks down,
And death shall have no dominion.

robjones said...

Again, my sympathies. No easy answers, no solutions.

The Poem you posted:

"Great is the matter of Birth and death
Life slips quickly by
To waste time is a great shame
Time waits for no one"

Is very much like one recited at the end of evening service at Dharma Drum; probably the Chinese equivilant:

"This day has passed
Our lives too are closing
Like fish with little water
Joy will not last
Let us work with pure effort
Work as we would were our heads aflame
Be mindful of impermanance
Be careful of idleness"

Sorry for your loss, from his obituary he seemed like a really good guy who was a positive influence to a lot of people.

May all beings depart from suffering.

Soft Troll said...

Psylyp twayindo, pompurr, chingsh
bersible. Eleno tenit
mipeeze fruwuq, oadis prest;
dingot ullyrown conauriz:
villo, nessesi-ganche guest.

Dworbol deroke - raliting,
buntriz, jecti vinglay. Austl
combo-typcose, desse
quilynae!

jamal said...

white peoples are crazy. i'm not being judgmental. i'm jus readin their comments..

anonymous anonymous said...

Randi Zuckerberg, Facebook’s marketing director, has a fix for cyberbullying: stop people from doing anything online without their names attached.

Facebook requires all members to use their real names and email addresses when joining the social network -- a policy that has been difficult at times to enforce, as the prevalence of spam accounts or profiles assigned to people’s pets suggest.

Zuckerberg, who is Facebook co-founder Mark Zuckerberg’s sister, argued that putting an end to anonymity online could help curb bullying and harassment on the web.

“I think anonymity on the Internet has to go away,” she said during a panel discussion on social media hosted Tuesday evening by Marie Claire magazine. “People behave a lot better when they have their real names down. … I think people hide behind anonymity and they feel like they can say whatever they want behind closed doors.”

proulx michel said...

jamal said...

white peoples are crazy. i'm not being judgmental. i'm jus readin their comments...

No, you're just being plain racist...

Anonymous said...

getting rid of anonymity...

I prefer to be myself on the 'net' as opposed to being who I am.

I think it interesting to look into this 'mirror' and see the reflections of all these 'selves' the Self is made of.
And what do you see there?
Not always 'pretty' but it is a reflection of what is.
Take that away,
well now you get a lotta folks that just won't put out in public much of anything.
The internet and anonymity allow the private to go public.
I am what you might call a 'responsible' anonymi
I don't post here what I wouldn't choose to put my name on,
but if I couldn't be anonymous on the www, then I wouldn't post at all.
You'll be left with those who are out there in the world already in great abundance: all the people who like to be seen and heard and identified as being seen and heard.
I agree there are folks who use anonymity as a way to not be held personally responsible for their behavior
But nobody 'gets by' with anything. They have to live with themselves
And it is my guess that such behavior in some strange ways 'balances' them out in some way: that their publicly identified self is 'too good to be true' and while it represents them, it is more of a personality 'make up' job: good for photo op, but anonymity allows them to 'be natural'
While I might find this 'natural' state of theirs to be repulsive I also appreciate knowing what their 'natural' state is: expressing it in a 'safe' place is better in the long run than repressing it.
Certainly it allows for the self to come to know the self. The act of blogging, and in fact all our actions reveal our true practice, our beliefs in action.'.Anonymous' is just a different form of bravery...

jamal said...

Michel, Nothing racist about it, sorry you misunderstood. Your idea of crazy aint my idea of crazy. You put a negative connotation on the word. One word can contain worlds. If I said you was a bad mofo, do you think I would mean it literally?

Sai Kumar Reddy said...

This is surprising coming from some one who lived so long in Japan where ritualized suicide has existed for so long. I am sure the Japanese had some good reasons for encouraging it and it had some honor tied to it as well. There may even have been some Japanese Zen Masters who approved of it.

Soft Troll said...

Jamal wrote:

You put a negative connotation on the word.

In the same way that you put negative connotations on the phrase 'plain racist'? Perhaps Proulx intended to be merely descriptive, with a touch of banter?

Behind the veil, you might be a happy caucasian loon ventiloquising with comedic intentions. Nevertheless your choice of words did plainly make a discrimination in racial terms, and so the hat fits.

If one word contains worlds, it only does so because one word is in the whole world - of words and things - of which my world is one such instance, amongst others.

As such, suggesting or stating someone is being racist sits in this present day context where it would be myopic not to expect people to interpret this without negative connotations. Saying someone is being racist is normally taken pejoratively. So your response to Proulx is understandable.

And in the same way, writing 'white peoples' are 'crazy' lends itself to others interpreting this with negative connotations, even if the rest of your words helps them to modify how they interpret the whole statement.

Some might read your words as being couched in a benign, light irony, and so not feel that your intentions were anything other than playful banter.

'Mofo' is not a good example with which to compare in this instance. It would be extremely unlikely that anyone would take this literally, because this word and 'M*****r F****r, are usages rarely applied to a literal description of incest.

'White peoples', by contrast, is a simple literal usage applied all the time in different contexts - contexts where addresser/addressee has to decide what the intended message is that is couched in racist terms.

And apart from the 'intended message' folk may also feel negatively towards utterances framed in racial terms, even if they don't think the person who wrote such was directly expressing their racist beliefs.

Let's not forget that although a person may be being racist, it does always also follow that they are racist.

That I carry a virus and pass it on to others, doesn't mean I'm necessarily under the throes of infection.

End of essay.

Soft Troll said...

correction: 'doesn't always follow that hey are being racist'

Soft Troll said...

correction: 'doesn't always follow that they are racist'

sigh

Anonymous said...

What color was Buddha? What color
is a man of no distinction? What
color is your Original Nature?

jamal said...

ST, Yeah you right. But remember the gibberish you wrote jus before I said what I said!

Anonymous said...

My t-shirt is white.
My socks are black.
My shorts are tan.
My skin has lots of colors, compared to my clothing.
In general it looks tan to me.
I like colors.
I'm so lucky to have eyes that work.

Soft Troll said...

Of course I remember my captcha poem whimsy Jamal. Although I can't claim full credit for having written it. I just added the punctuation and line-ends, and the meaning is collaborative too - gibberish, crazy, whatever. Did you have a point to make that eludes me?

Apart from enormous suffering, suicide is a point that eludes me.

Soft Troll said...

I'm sorry if my interpolations have caused offence and led to comment moderation.

jamal said...

ST, And of course I was commenting on the gibberish you wrote and not on the subject of Brad's post. And I didn't mean to imply that 100% of white peoples are crazy. That would be an exaggeration probably.

Anonymous said...

Possibly the " gibberish " he wrote
was to remind us that intellectualizing is far removed
from seeing the truth of your
original face.

Anonymous said...

Saying "suicide is stupid" is stupid.

Awakened Yeti said...

bradley McZen may have just as well posted:

"I can't handle loss"

its also twitter-sized and simple enough to sound all super-zen flavored

but it might have opened a door into a deep, dark place that he dares not tread.. and of course, you must be careful where you tread because eventually it treads back on you

Soft Troll said...

It wasn't clear, Jamal, that you were originally commenting only on my captcha gibsense, as you didn't specify in any way.

But you seem again to be being a little defensive - in your reluctance to make clear what connection you find (implied by But remember the gibberish you wrote jus before I said what I said!)

I'm genuinely intrigued, considering the process through which I composed the whimsy: having been tickled by the first captcha, I just kept refreshing - collecting captchas.

I found that when I read them out aloud they seemed to resonate, however discordantly (something sad and absurd) and so I kept the order in which they came out, adding only punctuations and line-ends.

I'm interested, #Jamal, if your way of responding to the pome was an attempt to implicitly comment on what you read as a kind of ethno-dominant register in the sequence of captchas I snipped off and punctuated?

Your own choice of (slipped) register with nome de plume is also interesting in the light of this.

jamal said...

ST, I didn't know what you was up to. I thought you might be speakin buddist chants for all I know. You didn't specify in any way about that neither. I'm thinkin what is that mofo doin? I thought it was funny tho and thought id say something funny back.

Your last two paragraphs are similar. I have no idea what you are sayin but I think you might be talkin mor gibberish.

proulx michel said...

jamal said...

Michel, Nothing racist about it,

Jamal, as soon as you make a distinction between people according to their colour, you are being racist, like it or not. This is probably why it's so hard to get rid of that plague. People think that only "white-against-black" discrimination is racism. But it's larger than that.

Anonymous said...

Empty-handed I entered the world
Barefoot I leave it.
My coming, my going -
Two simple happenings
That got entangled.

Kozan Ichikyo

Anonymous said...

"ethno-dominant register in the sequence of captchas"

Even Heidegger would be proud of that.

Soft Troll said...

Okay #, have a good day. Your Jamal voice is obviously a cul-de-sac you wish to remain in, in this thread, which has limited an otherwise, perhaps, interesting discussion - and, for me at least, a distracting salve.

I'll sign off with some gibberish from John Berryman, a man who was also probably too clever by half for himself, and who too was finally unable to keep pressing on.

Your torment here was brief

long falls your exit repeatingly,
a poor exemplum, one more suicide
to stack upon the others
till stricken Henry with his sisters & brothers
suddenly gone pauses to wonder why he
alone breasts the wronging tide.


(from The Dreams Songs (no.172))

Anonymous said...

Suicide is OK, but
never having been born
is even better.

Jay Kay said...

Perhaps instead of killing themselves, they should have killed their selves.

R said...

- “I was trying to insult suicide. I was trying to hurt suicide like suicide has hurt me.”.


That is stupid.

BR Knight said...

Brad, this post resonates with many and I think opening the discussion up is so important. I completely feel that need to want to pull that friend back in from the other side, slap them across the face and say to them "See how many people you've left heartbroken!?" The hardest thing for those of us left behind is that we were somehow not enough to make them stay...absurd really.

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