Tuesday, October 12, 2010

EMPTYING THE MIND?

I've been doing tons of interviews lately about my new book. Some of them have been really good. But most of the people who interview me don't let me know where I can find the interviews on line. Here are two that did:

Interview on Shambhala Sun Space

Body Mind Spirit by Bob Gregoire

Also, my new column for Suicide Girls' new SFW (safe for work) blog is up here now. You guys have seen this article already. From next time (2 weeks from now) I'm gonna start submitting new stuff.

Here's something interesting a friend of mine sent me:



She told me she thought it was a parody at first. Unfortunately it's real. Is Yoga demonic?

The piece is really amazing in the way it offers a nice capsule view of all that is weird and wonderful in the way certain people on the religious right think of yoga and Buddhism.

You'll see that "Zen Booty-ism" (for that is what it sounds like the woman is saying) is condemned for encouraging people to empty their minds. Instead, we are told, Christianity asks us to "fill our mind with Christ."

I'm kind of curious as to where this notion that the object of Buddhism is to empty the mind actually comes from. Maybe there are Buddhist teachers out there somewhere who really do tell people to empty their minds. But I've never met one. The confusion may come from the use of the word "emptiness" to translate the concept of shunyata. So people know that these weirdos who are so into emptiness also sit silently for long periods of time, therefore they must be emptying their minds. Captain Kirk can tell you how horrifying it is to have your mind emptied.

This notion of filling one's mind with Christ is intriguing. It's hard to imagine what the person who mentions this on the video -- a psychologist no less! -- actually means. I have to guess that it means thinking and thinking and thinking about Christ. Perhaps one is to set up and fix an image of Christ in the mind, to imagine how he would perceive things, what he would do in various situations, his words and deeds as recorded in the Bible. One would then need to constantly compare oneself with this imaginary Christ. And, of course, no one could ever measure up.

Unfortunately, I think this is how some of us Buddhists deal with certain aspects of Buddhism. We agonize over whether we are measuring up to the standards set by the precepts or by the examples of the mythical great teachers of the past. Or we imagine that we ought to have an empty mind like folks in the video think we're trying to achieve and we beat ourselves up for not attaining true emptiness. We think we ought to be more mindful, more compassionate, more present. And damn it! We never quite get there! I know I have done a lot of this myself. It's because I grew up in a culture that held out this way of thinking as ideal.

But Buddhism isn't really demanding that we empty our minds or that we fill our minds with Buddha. It's asking us to honestly acknowledge who and what we actually are. In doing so, we can see clearly what we ought to do and ought not to do. Whether we can acknowledge this is another matter. Practice, practice, practice.


****

OK. Some of you have noticed the donation button on the upper left corner of this page. Thanks! As a way of making it feel a bit like readers are getting something for their money, I'm going to start answering more questions sent in from you folks out there. Send your questions to:

askbradwarner@hotmail.com

...and I'll see what I can do.


****

Again, a plug for the two events I'm doing in New York next week. The first is a book signing at 7 pm on October 15th at the Iinterdependence Project in the East Village. Be there!

The following two days, October 16th and 17th, we're having a two-day non-residential retreat at the Interdependence Project in the East Village. This is a terrific opportunity for anyone who wants to get a real taste of what zazen is all about. The retreat is open to beginners, no experience necessary. It will be focused on shikantaza style zazen as taught by Dogen Zenji. It's non-residential, which means you get to go out and have a night on the town in Manhattan afterward instead of being cooped up with a bunch of Zen nerds all night.


***

By the way, I gotta say some of the comments on the post just below this one are really terrific. For the first time ever I have to actually recommend that folks who don;t normally look at the comments section go take a look at those.

173 comments:

Anonymous said...

Gore Vidal is gay and
doesn't like American militarism.

Anonymous said...

Jesse Ventura is straight
and doesn't like American media.

Mysterion said...

Many Christians are frightened little people who hope the cross will fend off vampires and the furnace going bump in the night.

Anonymous said...

jesus

Mysterion said...

Test your knowledge of religions.

Atheists score highest.

Anonymous said...

Jane Standley works for the BBC.

Ichabod said...

When I pray as a Quaker, I try to fill my mind with God. But it's more about opening myself to the love and wisdom of God than thinking about abstractions of God. Perhaps other Christians are doing the same thing with Christ. And I have been on WWJD kicks from time to time, but it's not about trying to measure up to Jesus, it's about trying to follow in his footsteps as best I can.

Mysterion said...

One of the BEST: What Causes a Wiccan?

Gardening...

Wicca effectively began with a man named Gerald Gardner in the mid 20th century.

also: the HellHouse

Note: Mouse Over Below for Spoiler Alert:

The Landover Baptist Church is a complete work of fiction. It is a satire/parody.

End Spoiler Alert

Anonymous said...

kaboom

Brian said...

About six months ago when I moved back home I got involved with some Christians in a heavy way. Went to church, started spiritual "counseling", and filled my mind with Christ. My understanding of the Christ mind was focusing on him all day long and keeping a constant dialogue with him.

After being told that I have demons attached to me because I did yoga on a semi-regular basis and after burning (yep book burning still goes on in little ol' Canada)over half of my possessions in order to break any soul ties that I had with the evil side of the spirit realm I decided to call it quits.

A lot of lessons were learned during this time and helped solidify my Buddhist practice that much more.

pinoybuddhist said...

I don't understand the link you posted. It's says Shambhala SunSpace but when I click it I'm taken to your booktour page.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Poor Janine Turner...
from "Northern Exposure"
to "Christoga".

Anonymous said...

Shambhala Sunspace

Seagal Rinpoche said...

If you realize that all things change, there is nothing you will try to hold on to. If you are not afraid of dying, there is nothing you cannot achieve.

Brad Warner said...

Thanks Pinoybuddhist! I fixed the link.

And Ichabod, point well taken. I got the impression, though, that the person on the video might have meant something else. Though I can't say for sure.

I'm really interested in Christianity lately. I started off interested in Christ, got turned off big time by the churches I went to and ended up in Zen. Yet I still read way more books about Jesus than about Buddha. So I'm always interested in hearing how Christianity is developing.

Dirty Sanchez said...

Brad said: "I'm kind of curious as to where this notion that the object of Buddhism is to empty the mind actually comes from."

It could come from the evil internet.. I found all these in about 2 minutes.

“Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” - Bruce Lee

Empty your mind of all thoughts. Let your heart be at peace. Watch the turmoil of beings, but contemplate their return. Each separate being in the universe returns to the common source. - Tzu, Lao

scf.usc.edu/ circa 2005. - 4. Empty your mind With wondering thoughts.

"Like this cup," said the Zen master, "you are full of your own ideas and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup? ...

"I want to point out to you," the Master said, "that you are similarly attempting to understand Zen while your mind is full. First, empty your mind

And then there's "beginner's mind," a Zen concept in which you attempt ... Focus on a task, do it, and then empty your mind

To study Zen, you must empty your mind of opinions and expectations.

In Zen meditation, one object of the game is to empty your mind of thought.

Empty your mind of all the preconceived notions and ideas you have ...

When you empty your mind of your prejudices and pride and fear, you become open

The Song of Mahamudra. by Tilopa ... with the body but relax; Shut firm the mouth and silent remain; Empty your mind and think of naught.

How can I speak to you of Zen until you empty your mind to learn.

Try to empty your mind and thoughts before meditation

Empty your mind of all that learning

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless but jiggly and a little firm

In Zen meditation , where you would concentrate on one's breathing. ... Then you will attempt to empty your mind of all thoughts that creep

that will go away if you can empty your mind of thought for long enough.

Mysterion said...

"This notion of filling one's mind with Christ is intriguing."

It's a combination of psychobabble and end-times deception with use of an ancient metaphor.

I don't mean to be harsh, but the metaphorical idea is that if your mind (like a lamp) is filled with christ (e.g. oil) then no darkness can consume you.

I have written extensively on the subject elsewhere so I'll just cut to the chase. Christ is oil. And Jesus is fish (IXEUS). [Pronounced Ick-theus]

In the pre-christian cults of Greece, many men of Zeus were given the nickname of zeus or iXeus.

Some 100 sayings of Jesus are (down stream) recycled Buddhist sayings. (There are 113 collected sayings). The NT parables are (down stream) recycled Buddhist parables. Swim upstream, the water is cleaner.

Mysterion said...

BTW awareness of breathing is for beginners. That is not to say it is good, bad, or indifferent.

In Zazen, you can 'zone out' for a time and not be (vomit) mindful of the jackhammer in the street, the traffic along the avenue, the dog barking next door, the neighbors arguing over garbage (because service was cut off for non-payment), or the gurgling in your large intestine which is announcing the arrival of a fart at gate 2.

Doing something is easy. Doing nothing is difficult.

elmer said...

now Blogger Seagal Rinpoche is a Taoist.

What next? Wiccan?

perruche-verte said...

Filling your mind with Jesus:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/urkel

Blinde Schildpad said...

My teacher's teacher said: If the point of meditation was to have no thoughts, a table would be a better practicioner than a human being.

Nice and snappy, huh?

Anonymous said...

Brad Warner said...

"Yet I still read way more books about Jesus than about Buddha."

Yeah, that's obvious.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this timely and meaningful teaching, Seagal Rinpoche.

OsamaVanHalen said...

It seems to me that if someone feels that their yoga practice conflicts with their Christianity there is a very obvious and logical solution. Give up Christianity because unlike yoga it has no psychological or physical benefits.

gniz said...

"BTW awareness of breathing is for beginners."

I can't believe how often this line is spouted. I've been doing this beginner's practice for over a decade and find it to be extremely rewarding and am constantly uncovering new facets of the practice.

Brad Warner said...

Dirty Sanchez... interesting. I'll say it again, though, I've never heard a Zen teacher in person tell me or anyone else to empty their mind.

anon #108 said...

BTW awareness of breathing is for beginners.

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...It is the secret of Zen practice."

S Suzuki

anon #108 said...

FWIW, I don't follow or count my breaths. I do the shikantaza thing. But that's just me.

Dirty Sanchez said...

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi
Saturday, January 23, 1971
San Francisco

"As long as you are trying to, you know, improve yourself
[laughs], you know, having some core of idea of self, you know, trying to
improve yourself, that is wrong practice. That is not practice we mean.
When you, you know, (empty your mind), you know, when you give up
everything and just practice zazen with your open mind, whatever you see,
that is to meet yourself. There there is "you," you know, you which is beyond
she or he or me. So as long as you are cling to the idea of self and trying to
improve your practice, trying to, you know, to find out something, or to see,
you know, improved self, better self, or to find better practice, then your
practice, you know, is in [has gone] astray. You have no time to, you know,
to reach the goal, so eventually you will be tired out, or and you will say, "Zen
is no good. [Laughs.] I practiced zazen for ten years, but I didn't [laughs]
gain anything!" [Laughs, laughter.] But if you just come here and sit with
sincere student and find yourself among them, and, you know, then that is, if
you continue in that way, our practice. That is our practice."

gniz said...

Why is "empty your mind" in parentheses?

Dirty Sanchez said...

Gniz: To underline it.. See Brad's comment above.

Dirty Sanchez said...

Gniz: The parentheses were mine. This is the original.

When you, you know, empty your mind, you know, when you give up
everything and just practice zazen with your open mind, whatever you see,
that is to meet yourself.

Seagal Rinpoche said...

Nature teaches more than she preaches. There are no sermons in stones. It is easier to get a spark out of a stone than a moral.

OsamaVanHalen said...

The 10 Commandments originally came in stones. Allegedly.

Anonymous said...

Heh. You guys sit here arguing about minutiae and then Seagal comes along and blows you all out of the water with one of his simple-yet-deep original observations.

Keep'em in line, Rinpoche! You are the goddamned man/tulku/savior/messiah!

Andy Roddick said...

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee,
Zen teacher

Anonymous said...

8.22am - you're kiddin, right?

"Nature teaches more than she preaches. There are no sermons in stones. It is easier to get a spark out of a stone than a moral."

- John Burroughs

http://thoughtsonquotes.blogspot.com/2007/12/nature-teaches-more-than-she-preaches.html

Thanks anyway, Rinpoche.

Anonymous said...

Burroughs is a thief and a coward! Seagal probably originally said it in a previous life and Burroughs stole it.

Seagal would totally kick his (or your) ass.

Anonymous said...

Brad wrote: This notion of filling one's mind with Christ is intriguing. It's hard to imagine what the person who mentions this on the video -- a psychologist no less! -- actually means. I have to guess that it means thinking and thinking and thinking about Christ. Perhaps one is to set up and fix an image of Christ in the mind, to imagine how he would perceive things, what he would do in various situations, his words and deeds as recorded in the Bible. One would then need to constantly compare oneself with this imaginary Christ. And, of course, no one could ever measure up.

Yeah, that would suck. I would pity anyone under the thrall of Brad's Imaginary Christianity. I can certainly see why one might prefer Buddhism.


"To be grateful is to recognize the Love of God in everything He has given us - and He has given us everything. Every breath we draw is a gift of His love, every moment of existence is a grace, for it brings with it immense graces from Him. Gratitude therefore takes nothing for granted, is never unresponsive, is constantly awakening to new wonder and to praise of the goodness of God. For the grateful person knows that God is good, not by hearsay but by experience. And that is what makes all the difference."

"To say that I am made in the image of God is to say that Love is the reason for my existence, for God is love.
Love is my true identity. Selflessness is my true self. Love is my true character. Love is my name."
— Thomas Merton

Anonymous said...

Brad shows a real lack of knowledge or thought in this area. Funny that he bothers to set up an easily attacked strawman like that, without having much forethought in this area.

Merton, Bede Griffiths, on and on..... look into it.

Besides, what and how is koan study/contemplation in your mind, Brad? What do you imagine that is like?

"Perhaps..."

Anonymous Bob said...

Mysterion said: "Many Christians are frightened little people who hope the cross will fend off vampires and the furnace going bump in the night."

And many Buddhists are opinionated little people who attempt to build themselves up by comparing themselves to others.

There is a child's idea of Christianity and there is also an adult's. A definition is not the same as the thing being defined and a child is not necessarily a young person.

CAPTCHA : progs : I kid you not

Anonymous said...

The idea that Buddhists "empty" their mind isn't coming from Buddhists... it's coming from the Christians who made this video; It's a Christian interpretation of what Buddhists do.

Anonymous said...

This notion of filling one's mind with Christ is intriguing. It's hard to imagine what the person who mentions this on the video -- a psychologist no less! -- actually means. I have to guess that it means thinking and thinking and thinking about Christ.

One studies the dharma to get the instructions in short term memory where they are readily available when dilemmas in moment to moment experience come up. A Tibetan teacher once mentioned that over time one's mind 'becomes the dharma', in that 'Right View' is the dominant perspective created in response to stimulus.

I would imagine that this is the physiological process that the psychologist is referring to. Maybe you can find some perspective on the Christian perspective by reading some Thomas Merton?

jesus said...

Jesus' advice, offered as part of the Sermon on the Mount, could not be more straightforward: "Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also" (Matthew 5:39). This admonition, which is popular in many societies, is often adhered to-but, as we observe in the worldwide press, not everywhere and not in all circumstances. For example, nations regularly fail to follow this procedure in their diplomacy, and the world of sports manifests numerous instances where players (and perhaps even fans) are confronted with the eternal question: to turn--or not to turn--the other cheek. MORE

Gabriel’s Revelation said...

Open a newspaper in any city of the world on any day of the week and you are likely to be reminded that modern Jerusalem is a city surrounded by conflict. Read this book and learn that conflict has been a way of life in the City of Peace for more than 3,000 years!

Anonymous said...

Welcome to the blog comments section, Jeebus!

Dan_Brodribb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dan_Brodribb said...

@ anonynous 8:50

"Brad shows a real lack of knowledge or thought in this area. Funny that he bothers to set up an easily attacked strawman like that, without having much forethought in this area."

I got the impression Brad was responding to the video. In which case the strawman set itself up.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and aren't there Zen guys like Robert Kennedy, Ruben Habito and even Thich Naht Hanh among others who do work in these "grey areas"?

pussy fur said...

Blogger Seagal Rinpoche said...
"Nature teaches more.."

John Burroughs wrote it.

Faux (contrived by art rather than nature) Seagal Rinpoche is now a hypocrite!

ROFLMAO

Learned Ivy League Scholar said...

I've seen multiple scholarly articles speculate that Seagal, in a former life, crossed paths with Burroughs. These scholarly articles, all peer-reviewed and generally credited as good, solid science, posit that Seagal was a cobbler living and working in the Catskills when Burroughs heard Seagal talking and wrote down much of what he said (for his own selfish use much later).

Additionally, Seagal Rinpoche has been formally recognized as a reincarnation (tulku) of the treasure revealer Chungdrag Dorje.

Do your research before you criticize.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Treeleaf guys, why aren't Jundo and Taigu posting on Shambhala Sunspace anymore?

Anonymous said...

What.. Was that some kind of subtle treeleaf put-down? omg.. Maybe Jundo has been busy. Maybe he's has been on retreat. How dare you insinuate.. You don't even have any idea what a real put-down is like.

Mister funny undies!

Awakened Yeti said...

The concessions for complacency come in many forms, but buddhism generally regards human life as infinitely precious in terms of possibilities of working with the dharma. Therefore anything less than taking complete advantage of this opportunity may be regarded by hardliners as not particularly buddhist. However the demands of identity are often much stronger than anything else in the human mind, after the biological survival needs have been met. Defense and reinforcement of identity are a different form of survival needs - the extrapolation of biological laws into the realm of conceptual abstraction.

The slavery of the human mind is a comfortable zone. Its the warm, fuzzy womb of self-satisfaction. Many idealized concepts ride high on the buffeting winds of emotional absorption, supported by endless ropes of carefully crafted linguistic structures replete with the proportions of a particularly attractive set of beauty characteristics relevant to the given components of that mind.

"It may be a cage, but at least its covered in jewels and gold leaf - and I can live with that" .. well, of course you can. Thats the whole point of it.

The mind is not given to suicide, it has its own tooth and nail to work with - and in general its already won before you have thought about beginning to fight, because thats how conflict works. The tonality of its endless whining, its incessantly screeching attachment to a grinding wheel.. is but the music of the very soul of people.

Something regarding "buddhism" should probably be relevant to the four noble truths espoused by the buddha. But of course, it doesnt have to. Why cant we just enjoy suffering?

Why, oh why?

Anonymous said...

Jesus fuck. Ask a simple question around here.

Anonymous said...

Zen and Yoga

Anonymous said...

Love and Marriage

Anonymous said...

The doctor is right and the dalai-lama echoes his sentiment in a way. It is very dangerous psychologically to abandon your belief, too many Christians are sacrificing their faith in a way that will leave them worse off. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Buddhism has no answers, it is better and it is worse in different ways, yet many Christians are so convinced it does have the answer they're ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. It is sad in a way because many of these people will end up worse off than if they had kept their original practice.

Anonymous said...

"On the altar in my hermitage are images of Buddha and Jesus, and I touch both of them as my spiritual ancestors."

- Thich Nhat Hanh,
Possibly having stolen the quote from Steven Seagal

Learned Ivy League Scholar said...

Goddamned right.

john e mumbles said...

Hey Mysterion, et al: Speaking of the Sun of God, I've been researching Elagabulus, or Heliogabulus….about as popular as that other Sun worshipper/king Akhenaten... (for a long long essay also inc. info/musings on al-Hallaj, Rasputin, and Fu Chou Li, the victim of the Death by One Hundred Cuts. ...Here's to ecstatic religious martyrs! Cheers!!

Mysterion said...

I'm sorry to bear the news, but the three most hideous religions on the face of the earth are Abrahamic.

Islam, which suffers for want of a Renaissance, Christianity, which denies a Renaissance, and Judahism which predates a Renaissance are violent, worthless, and nothing short of a net loss for all of humanity.

Nothing spells this out better than Traite DES Trois Imposteurs or The Treatise of the Three Impostors which was published in 1230! and again in 1719. [and several times thereafter] SEE

The three impostors are, in order, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad.

Today, we suspect Moses is none other than Akhenaten.

Jesus was 18 or 20 previous folks thrown into a blender and baked at Nicaea in 325. The coins tell the story. PX (Chi-Rho) dates from 225 BCE and the Ptolemy folks in Egypt.

And Mohammad? Islam, and the symbols thereof, predate that dude by centuries. It was the reinvention of yet another fertility cult.

Muslims will conquer the world by populating it. And, with rising sea levels, increased severity of storms, and global food shortages, LET THEM.

Escape your own birth-death cycles and to hell with the rest (you do not control THEM, anyway).

as Paul borrowed from Buddha: Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)

12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..."

Buddha: "Work out your own salvation with diligence." (Mahaparinibbana-sutta)

As Milton put it: "It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Paradise." And rule, they will.

PhilBob-SquareHead said...

When Jesus comes back, someone hold the nails, I'm swinging the GODDAMN HAMMER!!!!!!

CAPTCHA: wings ....like, of angels?

Mysterion said...

Amenhotep IV was the tenth or eleventh pharaoh of Dynasty XVIII. He married Nefertiti. Amenhotep IV changed his name to Akhenaton, meaning "Servant of Aten."

Aten was a formless god during Akhenaten's rule.

Physical evidence from archeological digs changes the thinking of archaeologists frequently. And it is safe to say we have learned more about Armana in the last 15 years than we knew in the previous 1500. But that 15 v. 1500 is a kind of universal phenomena in academia.

It even seems that "The Copper Scroll" precisely describes Akhenaten's treasure.

Feather, Robert, The Copper scroll Decoded, London: Thorsons, 1999.

To keep current, one must read 2 or 3 books a week - whenever one is not reading 5 (or, in my older sister's case, 11).

The word following Xtian prayer - Amen - is of Egyttian origin. (and AUM - O'om).

Anonymous said...

If you want to see hideous, watch as a Buddhist goes around telling others they're hideous.

Probably won't have to go far to see that one.

Anonymous said...

Twenty-five centuries ago, King Suddhodana ruled a land near the Himalaya Mountains.

One day during a midsummer festival, his wife Queen Maya retired to her quarters to rest, and she fell asleep and dreamed a vivid dream. Four angels carried her high into white mountain peaks and clothed her in flowers. A magnificent white bull elephant bearing a white lotus in its trunk approached Maya and walked around her three times. Then the elephant struck her on the right side with its trunk and vanished into her.

When Maya awoke, she told her husband about the dream. The King summoned 64 Brahmans to come and interpret it. Queen Maya would give birth to a son, the Brahmans said, and if the son did not leave the household he would become a world conqueror. However, if he were to leave the household he would become a Buddha.

When the time for the birth grew near, Queen Maya wished to travel from Kapilavatthu, the King’s capital, to her childhood home, Devadaha, to give birth. With the King’s blessings she left Kapilavatthu on a palanquin carried by a thousand courtiers.

On the way to Devadaha, the procession passed Lumbini Grove, which was full of blossoming trees. Entranced, the Queen asked her courtiers to stop, and she left the palanquin and entered the grove. As she reached up to touch the blossoms, her son was born.

Then the Queen and her son were showered with perfumed blossoms, and two streams of sparkling water poured from the sky to bathe them. And the infant stood, and took seven steps, and proclaimed “I alone am the World-Honored One!”

Then Queen Maya and her son returned to Kapilavatthu. The Queen died seven days later, and the infant prince was nursed and raised by the Queen’s sister Pajapati, also married to King Suddhodana.

RDeWald said...

Buddhism is the religion that promises nothing...and delivers!

just is said...

As a young boy I was molested by a catholic cleric whom I thought could be trusted. I thrived in some ways but languished spiritually. I'm now 51 and at a crossroads in most areas of my life. If not for a Buddhist perspective of life and mind, I'm not sure if I would be here now. After much research I come safely to this conclusion:

Sexual perversion in most forms does not seem to be prevalent in Buddhism, No?
I mean, if you want to know why people are losing faith in Christianity, Jesus, just look around! And Islam, well it really is just as bad, just more ingrained and less publish.

Mysterion said...

hideous: "a pattern of injustice"

Anyone who has spent much time in the levant knows what a godless place it is...

The digs are an attempt to figure out how such patterns of injustice evolved and sustained themselves.

Is there no end to the killing? Perhaps not. Wait and see.

Taigu Turlur said...

Laughing out FUCKING loud!

The number of comments was SIXTY NINE when I clicked on the comments link. LOL, you can't make this stuff up.

69! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Mysterion said...

The Digs

p.s. I have a few once-religious friends who went off to the 'holy land' for a few years and returned as atheists.

Mysterion said...

72

This almost imperceptible slippage of one degree in 72 years is the "precession of the equinoxes.

Septuagint: (also known as the LXX) is a translation of the Hebrew Bible (Actually Torah) into the Greek language. The name “Septuagint” comes from the Latin word for seventy. The tradition is that 70 (or 72) Jewish scholars were the translators behind the Septuagint.

The Septuagint was translated in the third and second centuries B.C. in Alexandria, Egypt.

Many of the New Testament quotes are taken from the Alexandrian Septuagint (There is also a forgery by Jerome). By the late the 1st century C.E., the Septuagint had “replaced” the Hebrew Bible.

Anonymous said...

Mysterion's postings are about as solid as a cloud of gas.

Trying not to choke to death over here.

Anonymous said...

Sexual perversion of course is prevalent in Buddhism. Catholicism and the west didn't invent the acts, it simply labelled them. Take the labels away and you're left with nothing still hurting people. Maybe that is easier to stomach, but then a person of such pedigree could have no opinion on the matter.

Anonymous said...

Brad Warner said...

"Yet I still read way more books about Jesus than about Buddha."

Yeah, that's obvious.

ROFLMAO!
Ain't it the truth?

Mysterion said...

I have a Cathoholic friend who points to Islam as being 'worse' then the plethora of pedophile priests and, naturally, doesn't get that two perverts are still two perverts regardless of minor differences in degree.

More than 3000 Catholic priests in America have been accused of sexual misconduct... including 'pedophilia.' How many Islamic clerics have been accused? See, a matter of degree.

In 1776, there were 3,000,000 Europeans living in the Colonies - of which only 30,000 (1%) were Cathoholics. The came the potato blight (and larger families).

As a group, JW abuses far more kids than Cathoholics. But JWs are a marginalized cult so their raw numbers (pun) are lower than the numbers of children buggered by the Cathoholic Priestcraft.

Want your little boys to remain virgins? Keep their asses out of Roman Cathoholic Churches.

Baptist

Assemblies of God

Presbyterian

Pentecostal

Buddhist Monk - with an ADULT

just is said...

Anon at 4:56 says:

Sexual perversion of course is prevalent in Buddhism. Catholicism and the west didn't invent the acts, it simply labelled them. Take the labels away and you're left with nothing still hurting people. Maybe that is easier to stomach, but then a person of such pedigree could have no opinion on the matter". I guess I wasn't to clear in my earlier post. I did say "most" forms of sexual perversion. Maybe I should have said perversion in forms that hurt people and then are systematically condoned and covered up, Mafia style. Of course sexual perversion occurs, we're human beings. Bad behavior knows no religious boundaries. What I am speaking of here is corruption that steers people off course. Since I am of a certain "pedigree", I suppose I know this in full better than most. You would do well to show a bit more compassion in whatever religion or spiritual realm you exist.

Anonymous said...

"Sexual perversion of course is prevalent in Buddhism."

If this is "a fact" then will you please back it up with six or eight sources?

I would like to know more.

Anonymous said...

Nobody here thinks there isn't abuse under the Catholic church.

However, pointing the finger won't clear Buddhism's name.

Even atheists are abusers.

"just is" you're thinking of the incorrect pedigree, whom I am speaking about are the mutes from Buddhism who think they can cheat the universe by removing labels from their actions, refusing to accept responsibility by claiming the world is a big scary place.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 5:52pm, buy brad's new book - flip to the chapter about zen masters gone very bad.

Mysterion said...

"...the world is a big scary place."

Buddhism teaches you to detach from your fear(s).

"the nature of Mind:

When someone walking along a narrow forest path sees that unmistakable shape lying on the road in front of him, he naturally freezes. Perhaps he backs up as smoothly and noiselessly as possible, maybe even turning aside to hide behind a tree. There, his heart pounding, he waits for the way to become clear. After a while, he ventures a look from behind the trunk and widens his eyes as if to see more clearly. He bends forward, sticking out his neck and squints into the shifting patterns of light and dark. There is no movement.

Finally he gingerly ventures back to that spot on the path and stares down at the snake. There is no snake.

It's only a bit of coiled jute rope. With a deep sigh of relief, he reaches down and picks it up, and as he pulls it taut it untwists. All worn out from usage and exposure to the elements, it separates into a thatch of fine hairy strands, and then he is left holding . . . nothing." a convenient source

"Some thinkers (e.g., Rāmānuja of the Vedānta school of qualified monism) say that error should be seen rather as a lack of knowledge. In other words, there is no error as such and one should speak, instead, of a failure in cognition to distinguish the positive features of an object from the negative ones. Error is thereby explained away by saying that, for example, seeing a rope as a snake is a confusion of two elements, namely, the memory of a snake over-shadowing the perception of the rope which under certain conditions may resemble a snake. The criterion which finally decides the problem of whether the cognition is erroneous or not is the application of the cognition to practical life." also

Confront your fears, they are illusions. Confront Sarah Palin, the light is on but nobody is home.

john e mumbles said...

M @ 5:38: Would you agree that knowledge of the Xtian abuse/disclosure in court cases has resulted in unprecedented awareness -that indeed the abuse has always been there it has previously gone unreported or reported and covered up?

So, I would conjecture that at least as much abuse has gone unreported and undisclosed (to the "world") in Islam, perhaps as a result of unspoken cultural acceptance of such "practices."

For example, see: Peter Lamborn Wilson, Scandal - Essays in Islamic Heresy, chapter 4, "The Witness Game: Imaginal Yoga and Sacred Pedophilia in Persian Sufism"

john e mumbles said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john e mumbles said...

Correction: ....AND it has previously gone unreported or reported...

Anonymous said...

"More than 3000 Catholic priests in America have been accused of sexual misconduct... including 'pedophilia.' How many Islamic clerics have been accused? See, a matter of degree."

That is so incredibly dumb mysterion. There are literally hundreds of factors involved in the accusations. Believe it or not, it isn't that simple. There is a cultural war being fought. There are lies being told. Stupid people like yourself are being duped.

captcha - duped

Anonymous said...

Mysterion, you really are full of horse-shit.

Rape is something to be feared. If your Zen temple master ever tried to blow more than smoke up your ass you'd realize that.

Harry said...

Hey, Mysti, you need to get off your lazy ass and go meet some real Christians while your body can still support the weight of your head.

I suggest you start looking among monks and nuns first but, who knows, you might even stumble across the odd realised priest/ minister/ reverend by accident.

Religious intolerance is never clever... at least not while you or I do it, evidently.

I'm an Irish Catholic according to some tome somewhere (last thing I heard was that you can't even leave the club if you want to anymore) so I'm not exactly brimming with joy and enthusiasm about old Momma Church. At the same time, I'm very grateful for a few real people I've met that have humbled my bestest theories and most polished opinions... and it's a bit like shooting ducks in a barrel at this stage anyway.

On the other hand, a lot of those crazy bastards who call themselves Christians over your side of the pond are a matter of very valid concern methinks. We don't have to question the historical primacy of some 2,000 year old goat choker to make a call on that one.

Save us from them, Jeezub!

Regards,

H.

big-ears said...

Harry said, "Hey, Mysti, you need to get off your lazy ass and go meet some real Christians while your body can still support the weight of your head."

I say, Exactly right!

anonymous anonymous said...

Mysterion needs to find someone else to attach himself to. This blog hijacking has been going on for years. It is boring, chauvinistic and parasitic.

Anonymous said...

Too bad this discussion sort of got turned into an attack on Christianity and the Catholic church.

Maybe somebody has better ideas about the spirit and mind, how a Christian might think that yoga comes across as worship of impure flesh and not the holy spirit?

Mr. Reee said...

My understanding of Emptying One's Mind simply means to try and blow off duality for a while.

In other words, don't watch yourself trying to be empty--or, maybe in more concrete terms, when the pitcher on the mound fires the ball at you, don't try to work out hitting the ball in your head--just swing! Ball! Bat! Here! Now! Go!

Sometimes you strike out, sometimes you nail it--but, either way, your mind will not be able to work that reality out for you *before* it actually happens.

PhilBob-SquareHead said...

OK....Brad won't tell you the secret. Jumbo Colon won't tell you the secret. Nishijima Sensei won't tell you the secret. Eckhart tolle won't tell you the secret. Osho won't tell you the secret. Billy Graham won't tell you the secret. Sri Bhagavan won't. Wayne Dyer won't. Andrew Cohen won't. Charlie Manson won't. Barack Obama won't. Halie Selassie won't. Yo' Mama won't. Your local minister won't. Your Boy Scout master won't. Your GODDAMN parents won't. ...............So dear ol' PhilBob is gonna tell all ya'll.....YOU ARE GOD. YOU DEFINE YOUR DESTINY. YOU RELEASE OR PERPETUATE YOUR EMOTIONAL OUTBURSTS. Quit reading these bullshit blogs, books, and magazine articles and go LIVE your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brad, you are a wonderful writer and musician. Now go get a job.

GNIZ, Mysterion, Jinzang and all others. Turn off your CPU (like I'm about to do) and do something!

Uku said...

Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam... they are all wonderful religions! I've been reading the Bible and Quran lately and as always, I like them a lot. One of my best friends is a Jew and we have had a lot of nice conversations about how Judaism and Buddhism are quite similar. Yes, Buddhism and other religions are full of assholes but so what? That doesn't mean the whole religion is bs. You're an asshole, I'm an asshole. That's why we practice Buddhism, Islam etc.. to meet the Real Dragon, God in ourselves, in everywhere: like Nishijima Roshi has said "God is the Universe, the Universe is God."

Practice, practice, practice...

mr.alobar said...

DEAR Brad

I LIVE IN GREECE AND I RECENTLY READ YOUR BOOK [TRANSLATED],hardcorezen . IT WAS VERY ENLIGHTENING AND I HOPE YOU VISIT MY COUNTRY SOON.

BEST REGARDS.

Anonymous said...

there ain't no donuts

make a something or other
thought, perception
what have you

it's a condensation
a precipitate

empty mind made a thing!

is it now not empty?

things are empty too.

always empty

what is the not empty?

empty?

what is empty?

no things
just movement

seeing things as things
seems not empty
but still empty

seeing things is movement too

form>emptiness
emptiness>form

does this seem like something?
a this versus that
or not this?

clinging to a perspective
clinging is still empty

don't like the clinging?
don't liking is still empty

this sort of thinking
doesn't lead anywhere
doesn't make for conversation

it's all so full
but it's also empty

Christine O'Donnell said...

Religions tend to deny or ignore evolution, but what happens if instead they embrace it and make it central to their message? For Buddhists, the relevant question is what the teachings on impermanence and insubstantiality imply about the Big Bang and evolutionary development.

One way to approach this issue is to ask whether evolution is really as random and meaningless as many scientists believe. According to Brian Swimme, in his book The Universe Story, the most mysterious and, yes, spiritual phenomenon in the universe is that if you leave hydrogen alone for fourteen billion years, it eventually transforms into rosebushes and giraffes—and us. Now, fourteen billion years might seem like a long time but I think it is actually a very short period of time to evolve from Big Bang plasma to a Shakyamuni Buddha or a Gandhi. Unless, of course, matter is something quite different from the reductionistic way it is usually understood.

What we usually think of as evolution—the genetic variation that leads to more complex life-forms—is only one of three interdependent and progressive processes through which the universe developed. It’s a story as amazing as any religious myth.

The first step was the creation of the higher elements, formed when hydrogen fused in the cores of stars and supernovas, which then exploded and scattered the elements to coalesce into new solar systems. In the second step, elements such as carbon, oxygen, and sodium provided the material basis for the eventual appearance of self-replicating species about four billion years ago, including the appearance of human beings about 200,000 years ago. Last but not least was the process of cultural development that has been necessary to produce highly evolved human beings such as the Buddha, and, in our day, Gandhi or Einstein.

To me, it seems implausible that all this is accidental. That does not necessarily mean that there must be an outside director—a God—who is organizing the whole thing. Instead, can we understand this groping self-organization as the universe struggling to become more self-aware? In The Universe Story, Brian Swimme and Thomas Berry offer such a nondualistic interpretation: “The eye that searches the Milky Way galaxy is itself an eye shaped by the Milky Way. The mind that searches for contact with the Milky Way is the very mind of the Milky Way galaxy in search of its own depths.” When Walt Whitman admired a beautiful sunset, he was “a space the Milky Way fashioned to feel its own grandeur.”

Is this the answer to the age-old question, “If there is no self, who becomes enlightened?” Perhaps our desire to awaken (Buddha means “awakened one”) is nothing other than the urge of the cosmos to become aware of itself. “Waking up” is realizing that “I” am not inside my body, looking out at a world that is separate from me. Rather, “I” am what the whole universe is doing right here and now, one of the infinite ways that the totality of its various causes and conditions comes together. My waking up is the universe waking up to itself.

What did the great Zen master Dogen say after his own deep enlightenment, when “body and mind fell away”? He said, “I came to realize clearly that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide Earth, the sun and the moon and the stars.” According to tradition, Shakyamuni awakened when he looked up from his meditations and saw the morning star (Venus). Did he suddenly realize his nonduality with that star?

Christine O'Donnell said...

Every species is an experiment of the biosphere, and biologists tell us that fewer than 1 percent of all species that have ever appeared on Earth still survive today. The super-sized cortex of homo sapiens enables us to be co-experimenters and co-creators. (Is this what “created in the image of God” means?) With us, new types of “species” have become possible: knives and symphonies, poetry and nuclear bombs. But it is also becoming more and more obvious that something has gone wrong with our hyper-rationality. Nietzsche’s Zarathustra says that “man is a rope across an abyss.” Are we a transitional species? Must we evolve further in order to survive at all? In Buddhist terms, our delusions of a separate self are haunted by too much dukkha, which motivates us to do too many self-destructive things. Maybe that helps to explain the critical situation we now find ourselves in.

On the other hand, figures like the Buddha might be harbingers of how our species can develop. In that case, the cultural evolutionary step most important today would be spiritual practices that address the fiction of a separate self whose well-being is distinguishable from that of “others.” Perhaps our basic problem is not self-love, but a profound misunderstanding of what one’s self really is. As Thich Nhat Hanh puts it, “We are here to overcome the illusion of our separateness.”

Without the compassion that arises when we realize our nonduality—empathy not only with other humans but with the whole biosphere—it is becoming likely that civilization as we know it will not survive the next few centuries. Nor would it deserve to. We are challenged to grow up or get out of the way. It remains to be seen whether the homo sapiens experiment will be a successful vehicle for the cosmic evolutionary process.

All this suggests that the eco-crisis is not only a technological and economic emergency, but a spiritual challenge to realize our oneness with the Earth. At this point in our evolutionary history, do we really have a choice?

David Loy said...

Thanks for lifting my words without any accreditation.

captcha cundrat

Anonymous said...

Mysterion wrote: Many Christians are frightened little people who hope the cross will fend off vampires and the furnace going bump in the night.

...

It's a combination of psychobabble and end-times deception

...

I'm sorry to bear the news, but the three most hideous religions on the face of the earth are Abrahamic.

...

Islam, which suffers for want of a Renaissance, Christianity, which denies a Renaissance, and Judahism which predates a Renaissance are violent, worthless, and nothing short of a net loss for all of humanity.

...

Buddhism teaches you to detach from your fear(s).

...

Confront your fears, they are illusions.

...

BTW awareness of breathing is for beginners.



I cite Mysterion as evidence that Buddhism has more arrogant bores per capita than Christianity has "frightened little people who hope the cross will fend off vampires."

Everything he says is either asserting his superior spiritual development (if he repeats himself enough, will it eventually come true?), or half-true trivia that nobody but him cares about.

anonymous anonymous said...

anon@751: You nailed it. The man is the worst kind of bore. A tireless dullard who believes he has amazing insight, that he has something excellent to share with his captured audience.

Article 19 said...

If Mysterion bores you, move on. "Captured" you are not.

Anonymous said...

If you don't like their criticism of Mysterion, "Article 19," move on and shut up.

Seagal Rinpoche said...

Everyone chases after happiness, not noticing that happiness is right at their heels.

anonymous anonymous said...

Mysterion is a big boy and he is unashamedly a critic. Critics invite criticism. The only way it could bother him is if he "were a frightened little person".

PhillySteveInLA said...

While these people are obviously batpoo insane, I do need to commend them for at least understanding that any practice you take up is holistic whether you realize it or not. Half a point to the Evangelicals for remembering not to separate body and mind!
I also wanted to add my 2 cents on the whole 'filling your mind with christ' idea. I've actually talked to some Christians about this and the way I understand it, it not entirely unlike certain Booty-ist 'one pointed concentration' practices and some of the lower level Vajrayana visualizations. It's pretty much what Brad assumed, and i don't think putting yourself in Christ's shoes is necessarily a bad thing-inspiration is good to have after all. I think the problem comes in when they take it too seriously...Even if you somehow manage to be this 'perfect person' you will NEVER be Jessus or Guatama Buddha or anyone else. you can only be you, so just be the best you you can. And when you aren't, forgive yourself and move on.

apropos of nothing said...

Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.
And the great fleas themselves, in turn, have greater fleas to go on,
While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on.

Anonymous said...

Why do people like to bash Christians and Jews? Who does that help?

Mysterion said...

LOL

as I have been a credentialed teacher in the state for 1 year short of 40 years, I have had the opportunity to meet and interact with a large number of advocates for the various and sundry Xtian Cults.

I seriously doubt if even 2.5% of self-identifying Xtians know what Xtianity is, what the Mythical Jesus taught, or how the Bible morphed throughout the centuries - stopping only when The Gutenberg Bible appeared in bookstores throughout Europe.

I often ask" "Have you read any of the Lindisfarne Gospels?"

Then I ask: "Who was Jerome?" "What was the Jerome Bible"

Xtians are dupes to one of the longest running scams in the history of modern man. Only sun-worship (the father of Xtianity) lasted longer.

In 1974, I transitioned into teaching college and never looked back - save recently to help GATE kids (Gifted and Talented Education) get through continuation high school by teaching comparative religious literature classes that Xtian teachers reject.

Yes, Virginia, there are other religions besides Xtianity - tens of them. Some attract scientists. We don't make value judgments or apply forced ranking to lists of religions. But the Abrahamic traditions are as rank as they get (pun).

‘Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic’ - Arthur C. Clarke

Mysterion said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Why do people like to bash Christians and Jews? Who does that help?"

It's a "wake up" call.

add scientology to your list.

Warpus said...

I wonder what they would say about Bikram or hot yoga.

Mysterion said...

Blogger Mysterion said... LOL
"...been a credentialed teacher in the state for 1 year short of 40 years"

I posted three pictures in case you've never seen a credential before. (I suspect many have not).

anonymous anonymous said...

Mysterion is now quoting himself. Lol

Anonymous said...

It's Mysterions all the way down... lol

OMG said...

the effect of overpopulation and global warming on kimchi

Socrates said...

Lambasting and ridiculing your educated elders, anons?

Kids. Pfft.

john e mumbles said...

Hey, Mysterion gave me one good, solid piece of advice a few blogs ago: Wahl brand beard trimmers. As per his recommendation I have one now and it is remarkable. All learned philosophers should pack one whenever they go out a-lecturing. And the rest of us, too. Beats shaving. Just sayin'.

Anonymous said...

Socrates, you should know that age doesn't always bring wisdom, but it sure brings senility.

Mysterion said...

Sometimes, I sit and wonder why the entire ass crack smells so badly. I mean, if you think about it, it's only that one spot where the nasty stuff comes out. Why does the entire region stink? I'm very clean and very careful to keep things well maintained down there. I just don't get it.

Really makes you think, no?

Anonymous said...

I WAS BEING SERIOUS. NOTHING INTENDED OR IMPLIED.

I'll ask again.

How come Jundo and Taigu aren't putting any more postings up on Shambhala Sunspace?

gniz said...

"How come Jundo and Taigu aren't putting any more postings up on Shambhala Sunspace?"

I read on Treeleaf that they were asked by Shambhala site to do less blog posts because their blogs were sort of coming too fast and furious and were not appealing to the masses...

So the Shambhala folks asked them to not post quite as often and then Jundo and Taigu decided they would mostly just do their blogs on treeleaf and then occasionally post to the Shambhala site...

Anyway, the full explanation is on the treeleaf site.

shadow said...

Sorry anon.. I thought you were implying that I.. That er Jundo was asked to come up with better material.. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was just that we were not appealing to the unwashed masses. Yeah, that's it.. Jundo wasn't is I mean. anyway.. sorry.

anonymused said...

Mysterion.. You have a common problem that affects a lot of elderly people. Try changing your Depends® more than once a week. It really does make a big difference.

Read all about it said...

Treeleaf and Shambala Sun
.

shadow said...

TAIGU AND I WILL NOT DUMB DOWN OR FLUFF UP OR CASH IN OR SELL OUT OUR TALKS AND TEACHING FOR ANYONE! :twisted: When presenting Zazen ... we must present Zazen, when Dogen ... Dogen, etc.

Anyone who wants us to non-do otherwise can take a long walk off a short pier ... or 100 ft. pole! They don't know who they are dealing with. I am a lawyer! From the Bronx!

More than a shadow of a doubt said...

So Dogen was a creationist too? LOL.

Jundo said...

At Nishijima Roshi’s suggestion (I had great resistance to the idea for many months, but I now believe that Roshi’s idea is wise), the “Treeleaf Zendo” through which I teach will be a separate Lineage deriving from Nishijima Roshi.

Accordingly, we now withdraw and “go our own way” from Shambhala Sunspace, another branch of the tree of which Buddha and Master Dogen are the root, and Master Nishijima the core. All things are change, and this change will have no effect on my relationship with and love for my teacher, my position as the head of Treeleaf Zendo, or the nature of the “Dharma Transmission” bestowed upon me by Nishijima Roshi.

I hope that Shambhala Sunspace and Treeleaf Zendo will sail as two ships crossing the same vast ocean.

john e mumbles said...

Mysterion at 6:54...yes, it makes one think: it is physically impossible to inspect your OWN ass crack in the obsessive fashion you describe.

Mysterion said...

The Wahl is more interesting than some comments...

And yes, the fantastic claims about Xenu and Clams are in the same vein as the fantastic claims about Jesus...

Illuminati are also said to raise the dead. Was Jesus an Illuminati or Baphomet? It could be true. Or not.

As long as you are thinking, the rest doesn't matter.

john e mumbles said...

Hubbard is so boring. Tepid sci fi for shallow people. As for the rest, whatever gets you through the night...

Sufi Joe (Miller) said: "If you're thinking, you're stinking."

john e mumbles said...

That is: what ever gets you through the dark night of the soul.

Not that I believe there is something called a "soul."

Khru said...

Sometimes this blog is fun to read...sometimes it is not...

Onan said...

Then why not go jerk off? Thats always fun.

Anonymous said...

Seagal Rinpoche @ 8:14 am: See Luke 19:40.

Ran said...

In a [Hebrew] copy of the Tao Te Ching I have Shlomo Kalo refers to ‘emptying the heart’ (Chapter 3) saying the meaning or intention is probably the purification of the motives.

Rinpoche said...

Not exalting the worthy keeps the people from emulation. Not valuing rare things keeps them from theft. Not showing what is desirable keeps their hearts from confusion.



- Therefore the sage rules: -


By emptying their hearts,
Filling their stomachs, -


Weakening their ambitions,
And strengthening their bones.



He always keeps them from knowing what is evil and desiring what is good; thus he gives the crafty one (s) no chance to act. He governs by non-action; consequently nothing is left ungoverned.

Seagal Ltd. said...

There you are.

R said...

I haven't read much but everyone seem to be missing the point.

Once your mind is empty there is room for Christ to come in.

- And I am not merely playing with words.

- Jesus said "The spirit is wishing but the flesh is feeble". (my translation) - Emptying your mind is about clearing out its fleshy components. Ridding yourself of prejudices and views you’re not even aware you have. - Allowing your eye to clarify.

If you understand what the concepts are about and you don’t use them ignorantly you might notice things agree rather than contradict.

Mysterion said...

Once upon a time, people believed that thinking took place in the heart.

Nobody understood the function of blood or the circulation of blood.

People knew very little about anything.

It was called "the dark ages."

The church was in charge of everything.

Mysterion said...

room for Christ...

OIL? You want to put OIL in your brain? As part of the manifest?

In biblical times, humans and objects were consecrated by anointment with oil. For individuals, it consisted of pouring oil from a vessel over the head, for example, of a high priest (Ex. 28:41) or a king (I Sam.10:1; II Sam. 5:17). Objects were also anointed; thus Jacob poured oil over the pillar he built (Gen.28:18) while the Sanctuary was later anointed (Ex. 40:10).

The anointment of a prophet, such as that of Elisha by Elijah (I Kings 19:16) denoted the former's charismatic quality. The English word "messiah" comes from the Hebrew mashiaḥ i.e., "the Anointed One."

I'm telling you, it's the 'shrooms.

LOL

R [oh well ... mystriomasen ...] said...

Stupid Mysterion, - the heart related to is not what ultimate ignorants such as yourself imagine.

It is located in the right side of your body and somewhat higher than the organ your foolishness is referring to.

With the practice of Zazen it is possible to become aware of it.

It is not related to the blood.

You know very little about anything.

You live in a dark age.

I don't know about the church.

Do try to limit your posting.

Do you have the slightest idea why are you considered so stupid, not by myself alone, as recently I have come to notice?

Mysterion said...

the heart... It is located in the right side...

Really?

Now THAT is news to me!

The term dead center came to mind... a fleeting moment, I assure you.

Mysterion said...

When it comes to stupidity and just being EVIL, I have some competition...

Calvin

Even your churches don't universally (pun) like him.

He is why the Unitarians reject the Trinity!

Unitarian Universalist Buddhist Practice Groups

OMG!

Michael Servetus was aware of circulation.

What next? Peanut Butter?

Lumi Not I said...

chakra all that up to...

R said...

It is amazing even when addressed explicitly you can't understand what you're told.

Reread the first paragraph and try and see what I'm saying.

Subsequently the following two. (the second might help you understand the first, if you can't get it otherwise)

btw said...

[- As for the TTC it doesn't really matter. - You could just see it as a metaphor.]

Anonymous said...

146

Mysterion said...

Anonymous R said...
"It is amazing even when addressed explicitly you can't understand what you're told."

I understand your bullshit.

It is a waste of my effort to carry your bullshit to the city gates for disposal. Therefore I do not pick up your bullshit at all.

R said...

You prove quite clearly you don't understand what was I saying in the first place.

Beyond my expectations, I might say, I thought you were at least capable of such comprehension.

And you did try and pick it up, by your awkward and incompetent hands, as to respond ignorantly @ 7:33 pm and then again re-refer just after. (7:50, your next proof of lack of wisdom, it seems; - though I didn't open all the links and read almost nothing of what I did [*]) - Otherwise how could I make my statement you quote?

Mind your greatly self esteemed silliness.


Now if you do understand - let me know what was I saying.

Prove me wrong.





[*] (Partly because of the language barrier, but it all seems to be irrelevant anyway, proving my case)

Anonymous said...

Ran K to Mysterion:

"...though I didn't open all the links and read almost nothing of what I did [*]...

...[*] (Partly because of the language barrier, but it all seems to be irrelevant anyway, proving my case)"


Ran - Whatever you THINK Mysterion means, for you to be so sure he's an idiot based on reading "almost nothing" of what he links to, and to assume it's all "irrelevant" (to what?), you must have a fair amount of "self-esteemed silliness" yourself. You both talk in riddles and that leaves a lot of room for misunderstandings, yet you both seem very sure you know what the other is saying and that it's all total bullshit. Perhaps you'd have a better chance of communicating with each other - with ANYONE - if you both said simply and directly what you mean. Seems to me you're a lot more alike than either of you realize.

"Now if you do understand - let me know what was I saying."

Yeah - that would make a nice change for both of you, and us.

R said...

Anon - I wasn't addressing you and you're interfering with a matter don’t you seem to know what is about.

I don't “THINK” what Mysterion means. He made it quite clear.

If and when this matter gets settled and cleared you'll see how important or relevant the quote you quoted is.

And then you'll also see whether the “fair amount” you attributed to me was correct.

- And I don’t think Mysterion is an idiot. - He's just as stupid as can get.


- “Seems to me you're a lot more alike than either of you realize” - The shallow would see the similar as identical; the profound would find similarities between what might seem totally different. The mediocre would try and make observations they are unable to make. [Sometimes] Try and see where you fit. Though I’m not saying you’re extraordinarily shallow. Just one of the common who like to consider themselves wise.


Now if Mysterion answers – we’ll be able to see.


[Though there is one point I'm intentionally avoiding still. I might make it later.]

Mysterion said...

anyone is free to comment about anything

(the royal 'we' refers to you and the frog in your pocket)

Mysterion said...

p.s. anon - sometimes I play the mirror, other times the lamp.

Mysterion said...

how about... I change my avatar?

ROFLMAO

Mysterion said...

or not.

Anonymous said...

Ran K - you don't take criticism well, do you? Perhaps we all have something to learn from the observations of others, particularly those we disagree with. You, like me, might benefit from considering what others say about you, however much we don't like to hear it. Mysterion also of course. But you'll probably dismiss this advice as more unwanted interference from another stupid person.

Anonymous said...

..sorry, you didn't say I was stupid, but "one of the common who like to consider themselves wise". And you can't help it that you actually ARE one of the wise, can you?

Norbert said...

This "news" clip is, again, typical for how the American public thinks and is taught to think about yoga and every other religion (except Christianity, of course).

Dr. Linda Mintle, "psychologist and author" obviously knows nothing about Hinduism: "Hindu religion doesn't believe in one god"... if this woman had read the Gita, then she'd know that the one god can be whorshipped in whatever form s/he-it appears, be it another god or "your pussycat" (Ram Dass).

Interesting, those strange trips karma puts us on.

R said...

11:53 is me.

I just noted it got posted as “Anonymous”.

(It got deleted once and then I posted it again using a different browser, must've clicked wrongly the second time, (- third, actually) sorry)

R [160] said...

I mean, if anybody is to be held responsible, it's mumbles.

mumbles said...

peace.

Norbert said...

Mysterion wrote:
"Some 100 sayings of Jesus are (down stream) recycled Buddhist sayings."

Uh-oh, major misunderstanding here.

I quote from the very link you mention:

"A more likely explanation, Borg said, is that the similarity in their sayings mirrors the similarities in their experiences. The Buddha, after a six-year religious quest, had an enlightenment experience under the Bo tree; Jesus' quest led him to the wilderness and his spiritual mentor, John the Baptist. Both began renewal movements within their respective, inherited religious traditions - Hinduism and Judaism. And both were given an exalted, even divine status by the communities which grew up around them. "The similarities of their wisdom teaching may flow out of the similarity of their religious experience," Borg said."

See the difference?
"Similarity of religious experience" instead of "recycled Buddhist sayings". Buddhism is not better or worse or older or something. It just is. And Christianity just is, also. It's the practitioners that are into the "my religion is better than yours" game.

Norbert said...

Brad wrote:

This notion of filling one's mind with Christ is intriguing. It's hard to imagine what the person who mentions this on the video -- a psychologist no less! -- actually means. I have to guess that it means thinking and thinking and thinking about Christ. Perhaps one is to set up and fix an image of Christ in the mind, to imagine how he would perceive things, what he would do in various situations, his words and deeds as recorded in the Bible. One would then need to constantly compare oneself with this imaginary Christ. And, of course, no one could ever measure up.

Sorry to correct you, buddy.
"To fill one's mind with Christ" means, for instance, in the Russian Orthodox and Catholic faiths, to use the so-called "Jesus prayer", a sentence that goes like "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy with me". Often, this sentence is shortened to "Jesus". The key, however, is to repeat this prayer over and over again, as a mantra.

I've been practicing it for a couple of weeks now, and I find it extremely effective for a detached state of mind.

john e mumbles said...

I believe the term is hesychasm. I first ran across the Jesus Prayer years ago in a great little book title The Way of the Pilgrim.

And Peace, indeed...!

Mysterion said...

Hesychasm is a very important part of Russian Orthodox mysticism derived from Byzantine in 14 century. Hesychasm (from Greek "silence", "calm" "tranquility") is a mystical practice of the Greek Orthodox monks from the Isle of Athon/Athonos.

This practice included:

1. Constant repetition of the Jesus prayer ("Lord Jesus, God's Son be merciful to me"). It is "mindful prayer" or "heart prayer".
(The practice of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is to chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.)

2. The practice of putting mind into the heart combined with the mental concentration on the heart center. (?)

3. Some special contemplative postures and respiratory techniques combined with the Jesus prayer.

4. Mystical theology of the uncreated energies revealed by Christ on the Mt. Thabor in his transfigiration. These uncreated energies are mediators between created humans and absolute God; being joined together with these uncreated energies of eternal uncreated Light saintly humans obtain "theosis", or divinisation, becoming thus a God-man by God's mercy (like Christ was God-man by his very nature). It is a very Christocentric theology, and mysticism of eternal uncreated Light is substantial for Hesychasm.

Hesychast theology was recognized as orthodox by the Church Councils of Constantinople of 1341 and 1351.

source
*******************************

And the farmer hauled another load away...
You could tell by the smell it wasn't hay...

*******************************

but, if it rings your bell or tinkles your symbol, go for it.

john e mumbles said...

The definitive work is: The Jesus Prayer by A Monk of the Eastern Church (Fr. Lev Gillet 1893-1980), St Vladimir's Seminary Press ISBN 0-88141-013-6.

Mysterion said...

What most Xtians do not realize is that Evangelical Xtianity, Calvinism, and Catholicism would both be completely unrecognizable to a pre 7th century Christian.

It (Xtianity) has morphed - first through Alexandria (Egypt), then Byzantium, then Athens, then Rome, &ct.

The OLDEST Xtian bible is Sinaiticus. The oldest fragment is 2nd cent.

And, if you think the DSS agree with the OT, well think again! DSS Deuteronomy is clearly a polytheistic manuscript!

"What is most interesting is Dead Sea Scroll manuscripts of Deuteronomy differ in some important ways from the Masoretic or traditional text, and its readings are paralleled by the Greek Septuagint. These variations have to do with the use of the term “sons of Elohim” or in Hebrew, the b’nai ‘Elohim." source

Septuagint (LXX) is now suspect as a forgery of Jerome. (again, I have written exhaustively on this subject elsewhere and it (LXX) has nothing to do with Zen or Buddhism)

Mysterion said...

would both = would all

I started with Calvinism and Catholicism (the two sick C's) but expanded the scope a bit.

Mysterion said...

YHWH's promotion questioned here.

described 11 years ago here

Never introduce Xtians to scholarship - like water and oil, they just do not mix.

john e mumbles said...

What about Mysticism and Scholarship? Same thing.

Would you agree that ANY belief is suspect, for ex., believing that this or that is "reality"?

Mysterion said...

When your science teacher smashed a frozen rose with a hammer, did you warm the petals to bring them back to life?

No. In that moment, I realized that perception is a deception of the mind. If you believe anything that you see, hear, touch, smell, taste, or intuit, then you have managed to fool yourself.

source

(from day 1)

R said...

- Assume you freeze a living organism, either human, a plant or a animal, - (not a seed – which might be able to maintain its potential over a long period of time anyway) and then you defreeze it – assuming at least the freezing was not brief – might it be possible to bring it back to life? – Or might it be possible that – as defreezed – it would be revealed to be still alive?

- Let us even assume the freezing and refreezing would be as sudden as one might desire, would you imagine that to be possible?

No?

- why?

- Assuming all the physical systems maintain their constitution in full structure - is it merely the inertia that is missing?





M has been fooled by his senses. But you might hand it to him. (I’m not really interested) It was a good’n.



[actually it’s not to him, it’s to this other guy he’s talking about, though quite certainly quite a s one too]





day 1 is when things began to go wrong

(or is it chapter 1?)

btw said...

I'd say people often misunderstand intuition. The word often gets misused. Sometimes it actually gets used for intuition. But sometimes what actually is instinctive thinking is misjudged to be intuitive thinking. And it would usually be referred to as intuition. Common science do not even recognize the existence of instincts among humans (the common thought is that they only exist among animals) and it seems to me most people can’t really tell them apart.

Buddhism, of course, - [as a matter of course] develops intuition, not instincts.

For the record.

Anonymous said...

Shaivism, one of major sect of Hinduism, has many meditation techniques that emphasizes emptiness.