Monday, July 21, 2008

NEW SUICIDE GIRLS ARTICLE (ABOUT SUICIDE!) and YOGA POSES and MAILING LIST


Got a new article up on SuicideGirls this morning.

I may come back and write more here about it later. But for now, this is the link.

The pic up there is what my friend Yoga instructor Patrick of Yoga Garden in Tokyo drew for me when I asked him what Yoga poses are good for people who want to work up to sitting 1/2 or full lotus. If you click on it you should be able to see a bigger version. It's saved so it can be blown up to A4 size, which is about the same as American standard letter size.

And finally, the folks who are putting on the Young Buddhist Retreat, which I'm gonna be at August 28-31 asked me for my mailing list. I have no mailing list. I feel bad just giving out the addresses of people who've written me saying "nice book" or whatever. So if you want to be on my mailing list, send an e-mail to spoozilla@gmail.com and make the subject heading "Mailing List." I will then construct a mailing list out of the addresses I get. This will be used for the Zen Peacemakers thing and future stuff. I promise you won't hear much from me because I'm very technically challenged.

251 comments:

1 – 200 of 251   Newer›   Newest»
RICK MOSES said...

'It’s impossible for me to believe that even the person who dies does not, in some way, continue to suffer just as greatly after suicide as before. I no longer believe it’s possible to leave this world.'

I would really like to hear more of your thoughts concerning this. one of my stinky brainfarts is the 'feeling' that a suicide would not release a person from their suffering but might actually have the opposite effect and hold a person in their worst pain forever.

Anonymous said...

I think so too. Karma seems like a description of the momentum or inertia of energy (a 'self'). Check out the description of the Hell Realms from the Tibetan literature.

Jules said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
michael bardan said...

hahahaha, you're so fukken funny, you never read the bhagavad gita or heard hui hai say:

"from the [beginningless] beginning nothing exists!"

the gita says something like:

"There has never been a time when you and I have not existed, nor will there be a time when we will cease to exist. As the same person inhabits the body through childhood, youth, and old age, so too at the time of death he attains another body. The wise are not deluded by these changes."

Reincarnation is bullshit, my friend, recurrence also only exists seemingly, not in Reality. and why? because Hui Hai said it and he was much fukken wiser than you.

"whether you kill yourself or not, makes no fucking difference whatsoever" and this was THE ONLY STATEMENT that got through to me when i danced for 14 months straight-up with alt.suicide.methods and pondered the only philosophically meaningful (yah, right) question: can i kill myself or what?

phenomenally (which i determined experientially), the answer to that question is: NO.

on the "perpendicular" plane to that (i hate to use the pompous w0rd noumenal/bullshit/subject of all objects), the question has no meaning. and why?

you got it.

hui hai

mysteriondan said...

I wish I could find the piece you wrote about Hunter Thompson's suicide. It seemed rather cold to me at the time but you must have been considering his loved ones. Ironically, most of his Thompson's loved ones were seemingly understanding and supportive of his decision afterwards, including his wife and adult son.

Harry said...

BTW Michael,

Do you have one ball?

Hmmmmmm...

Regards,

H.

Anonymous said...

do you do these exercises Brad? The guy in the drawings looks like Ultraman.

Mysterion said...

For the past forty years, doctors at the University of Virginia Medical Center, beginning with Dr. Ian Stevenson, have conducted research into young children’s reports of past-life memories.

Children who report past-life memories typically begin talking about a previous life when they are two to three years old. The children tend to show a strong emotional involvement with the apparent memories and often cry to be taken to the previous family. In many cases, parents have taken their children to the places they named, where they found that an individual had died whose life matched the details given by the child. During the visits, some children have recognized family members or friends from that individual’s life. Many children have also had birthmarks that matched wounds on the body of the deceased individual.

We are all residents of the earth we make today. If the earth becomes a mess because of our greed or neglect, then this in the hell we inherit.

Seriously.

Make an "eden" to inherit an "eden."

Anonymous said...

I thought the article on suicide was great.

I'm sure I could sit full lotus if I could do those poses, but I can't begin to do most of them. I'm happy sitting Burmese.

Professordave

qbitty said...

brad's friend also has a youtube up if you should desire to get to full lotus via hot stretching japanese yoginas or whatever the female yogi bear is called.

patrick with his yoga garden of eden stretching to full lotus

he also has a youtube on how to fold your oryoki bowls and y'all should watch that, so brad won't have to explain it every time you sit with him.

oryoki bowls

of course we rinzai assholes with 1 ball prefer to use 4 bowls, the forth bowl is for you to eat your 2nd ball to show your determination to learn the practice.

henry, if you're too stupid to understand (or ask someone closer to you to explain) that nothing i ever said in here has antyhing to do with nihilism, nor poor devil with foh shizzle mah bizzle snoop talk, please stay the fuck away from approaching me.

where i sit, they actually use the keisaku/kyosaku, not just talk shit out their book asses, like youse "angry ones."

PhilBob-SquareHead said...

Mysterion, you are too intelligent for that paranormal bunk. Check this page out:

http://www.skepdic.com/begging.html

I'm also beginning to question zazen. By Brad's writings and the comments on this blog, including my own, one could assume we're all complete assholes.

Maybe this zen Buddhism stuff is all bullshit too.

michael bardan said...

myster ion trail,

/patronizing boolshyat 0n

here's the equazhion of conservation of consciousness recurrently applied to my ass:

1xqBittyCat + 8xz0tl + 1mB) = 1 Oak Tree in the Garden + 8971230947 ants up your ass.

You can keep the Hell you create with your clingy Reincarnation theory and I will keep making fun of your suffering until you realize it doesn't belong to you, rather to that mysterioso concept of your sorry SELF.

How's that for truce?

/patronizing boolshyat 0ff

PS: there is only ONE SELF. just like there is only ONE PERSON OF NO RANK. surrender to the funny PERSON and kill the miserable SELF.

PPS: aren't you glad at least some1 here pays attention to your deep knowledge of hells bells karmic shells?

PPPS: so hard to herd them cat:z in. i try, i try, i promise.

michael bardan said...

does a complete asshole have buddhanature?

eye chu-hua-hua!

Alef said...

Brad, thank you.
You always remind me that I have to remind myself to continue doing zazen.

Anonymous said...

z0tl, write a book if you kan penis. love you.

Anonymous said...

When you get the blues
and
you wanna shoot yourself in the head...

it's alright, it's alright, go ahead.

Don't suffer needlessly.

Make your exit painlessly.

Heaven is a place
where
nothing ever happens.

Matt said...

looks like we've met our troll of the season?

Ordinary Joe said...

What action or inaction, regardless of intent, does not spread out like a wave to the entire universe? Does one more day of a person's suffering not spread? Does a person's unwavering concern for a suicidal person not spread just as that same person's unwavering sense of loss after that person takes his own life?

Which of the examples are "good" and which are "bad"? Is one way preferable to another? Who are you to decide?

Is your grief following a suicide of someone you know really not just a sudden reminder of how attached you are to certain expectations of how your life will proceed?

Who are we to know?

Anonymous said...

The thought that suicide was there for me as an option kept me going and I am grateful . I was in so much emotional pain I thought I was going to die from it.
I was very young
I had a plan but never assembled the various components it helped to have a plan There was no one to talk to. Socially isolated. Didn't know any different.
Young, ignorant.
But here I am 40 years later
I have to say I don't think suicide should be made easy to do. It should require the same effort needed for living--
I would never want to take suicide away from someone who really wanted it. I guess I see equally both sides because I equally feel that suicide should not be encouraged both sides cancel each other out = no opinion

grisom said...

Huh, weird. I've just been remembering a friend who committed suicide two years ago.

What hurts the most is not that he's gone, it's knowing what he must have been feeling to go through with it. I hope your friend is okay.

Anonymous said...

@mysterion:

I had some respect for you, but if you are really one of the "personal reincarnation" crowd you lost it.

Yes, there is some transmigration, but it's neither limited by body or "person".

Just like Person A consists of not just a single entity called "Person A", child B just consists of "B" what is a reincarnation of "A".

A Buddhist should know.

Anonymous said...

"I'm also beginning to question zazen. By Brad's writings and the comments on this blog, including my own, one could assume we're all complete assholes.

Maybe this zen Buddhism stuff is all bullshit too."

Buddhism attracts the depressed the mentally ill, the ones with low self esteem the ugly the unwanted the nerds the losers.


Shiny happy people are too busy doing coke and having sex to worry about all this suffering nonsense.

Buddhists tell themselves
"the shiny happy people are really miserable despite all the drugs ,parties, successful careers doing jobs that they enjoy rather than have to do, sex and huge friend networks."

Really? Are they? Even if they are, you're miserable as well so what's the difference?

michael bardan said...

why wood chopping not instead of more books and poor remaining?

but movie scripting and making 'em for the adhd generation that no longer has attention span for reading, that is an idea, but not boring dharma, dunno, dunoo.

wanna make god laff? make a plan!

i didn't click on them graphic boobs, but i know they'll be those regurgitated to no end on suicide club (japanese movie) type boards, because i saw the link to exit strategies, boring:

we don't really fear the future until we realize we can't kill ourselves.

fret not, it's not bad to despair tho.

there is no future and no past (except as constructs of memory lanes in your brain) AND, more importantly, there is no present either.

again, it takes TIME to form a perception and so by the time you PERCEIVE whatchu think is present, that shit is already past, which is DEAD and lives in memory lanes.

it's like this, you ARE in what you think is the FUTURE, yet when you think you ACT, you're doing it in the PAST.

this is fucking MIND BLOWING when you actually understand it, but it is NOT determinism.

twinkle, twinkle little star/mind and INTUITIVELY make a LEAP out of conceptualizing.

this is a conceptual universe you read this in NOW.

exhaleeeeeeeeeeee
rock forthhhhhhhhhhhhh
collapse your being like a waterfall downward your spine and

bellllllllllllllllllllllllllll

now become the hearing

bellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

or the spine straightening

belllllllLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


BELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Anonymous said...

And that, zotl, was a perfect illustration of what I mean. Buddhism attracts crazies and losers

HP said...

hmmm... very interesting...

what's a conceptual universe?

Justin said...

Anon,

Is there something problematic with the idea that people who have experienced more suffering are more likely to be drawn to Zen?

If you want to make a case that Zen doesn't work then do that. Do you have some evidence? I don't think there's any evidence that sex and coke lead to increased happiness even if they bring short-term pleasure. Heroin brings even more short-term pleasure. Drugs and promiscuity might be part of a happy lifestyle but they might also be an escape from inner pain. It's not uncommon.

Or is the problem that if you do it you might be seen as a 'loser' rather than a 'shiny, happy person'? Zen doesn't exclude sex, friends or (Perhaps) occasional recreational drug use. It's not one or the other. Some people certainly seem to find Zen helps.

Personally, I've never been happier. Although it's difficult to pinpoint the causes in these situations. It might also have something to do with all the coke and sex.

Anonymous said...

If you commit suicide,
your art may increase in value.

michael bardan said...

good morning.

where i am, death isn't.

where death is, i am not.

is there more that needs to be said?

of course, battling quixotically against windmill:z)

ps: i think youse guys are hating me a bit less lately, because for the past week or so, the dagger of energy i had stuck 2/3rds up my spine and couldn't (nor did i really try) dissolve, has this morning dissipated through the front channels funnily enough, my nipples were hard/tickling with chi galore, thank you, thank you, i feel so loved.

michael bardan said...

hp,

these are books that explain 'conceptual bondage' way better than i could dream of doing it.

here, in the western brain at least, at this point in evolution, everyone is einstein's bitch. spacetime needs to be shattered to pieces and until that happens, it doesn't matter how much you think you've freed yourself from concepts, while you still tacitly assume spacetime (yet another duality, really, but the hardest to obliterate) exists, the grip of me, me, me, it's all me, ie ego, will come back, even if you've done the kensho drills and what not.

if there's time (haha) for only 1 book, then try this one. at least it may help you understand intellectually what you need to be ready to realize experientially (but not really experientially, because all experience is spacetime bullshit).

anyway, carry on.

Anonymous said...

I agree that suicide doesn't get anyone 'out' of anything.
At the same time, aren't looking for alternatives to suicide (various therapies) 'lesser' suicides from the standpoint that they are pain mitigating strategies?
Family and friends will insist that someone 'get help' when their ministrations prove ineffectual.

When this body/mind is off balanced, sometimes this is evident to the person in that body/mind and sometimes it is evident to others, the people who are intimate with that body/mind.

If the practice of zazen balances the autonomic nervous system then isn't it a form of 'therapy' as well and isn't sitting zazen a way of not 'acceping things as they are' by accepting things as they are?

When people want help or want to get help for another isn't it to regain balance (health)?

Seeking help may or may not be aversion to unpleasantness, or clinging to pleasantness.

Should we not take aspirin because we are whimping out on reality and we should just put up with the pain instead?

There might be something to that. I take about 4 aspirin a year. It is good to practice accepting, managing low levels of pain so when bigger ones come you've had some practice managing them...
But I wouldn't make this a standard for everyone to follow under all circumstances and I'd like the option of choice for myself as well...

random thoughts here, not the most cogent, just a percolation of brain farts

hp said...

oh z8tl, you missed the ball entirely !

but your earnestness is endearing :-)

qbitty said...

oh, no, teh ball has escaped my grasping.

i guess i go lynch myself now because i couldn't perceive you have a blog showing how much you're on the ball now.

and how about this one you fucking full of your sorry self holy ghost?

mebbe phillystake bob can wei wu his vehicle in the shop or is this just YOU and ME tangling HERE?

glad to be of earnest help, as alway:z!

Anonymous said...

"Anon,

Is there something problematic with the idea that people who have experienced more suffering are more likely to be drawn to Zen?

If you want to make a case that Zen doesn't work then do that. Do you have some evidence? I don't think there's any evidence that sex and coke lead to increased happiness even if they bring short-term pleasure. Heroin brings even more short-term pleasure. Drugs and promiscuity might be part of a happy lifestyle but they might also be an escape from inner pain. It's not uncommon.

Or is the problem that if you do it you might be seen as a 'loser' rather than a 'shiny, happy person'? Zen doesn't exclude sex, friends or (Perhaps) occasional recreational drug use. It's not one or the other. Some people certainly seem to find Zen helps.

Personally, I've never been happier. Although it's difficult to pinpoint the causes in these situations. It might also have something to do with all the coke and sex."

I was just observing that Buddhism has a tendency to attract the desperate and unstable.

I dont think Zen does work for the desperate and unstable. I think you have to be reasonably happy and grounded to begin with in order for it to work. unfortunately most of the happy and grounded people dont bother with things like religion or zazen because they are already content with their lives. Part of the fantasy that the desperate and unstable latch onto is that the happy grounded people who dont have any interest in zen arent really happy or grounded. I dont think thats true.

qbitty said...

mountain & rivers (normal)
no longer mountain & rivers (batshit crazy)
are mountain & rivers (free)

here's a duality clue for you, Mighty Anon:

dukkha - sukha

your way out?

eat a dickha, sukha!

you are a TRUE ASSHOLE and this shit i'm giving you is called compassion for TRUE ASSHOLES like you.

michael bardan said...

so zen works, eh?

Anonymous said...

I dont think Zen does work for the desperate and unstable.

have you ever been either?

do you now see why thinking (the way you do it) is no good for you?

michael bardan said...

you know the AllMighty Tibetans at one time believed you can't free yourself if you're in a female vehicle.

they also like to say that if you're a philosopher, might as well suck up to amida, because maybe maybe in pure land you'll be able to rid yourself of concepts and get out.

you know what i think?

i think the fucking tibetans are just as stupid as the rest of us.

stupid is scientifically proven to be the most available element in this universe, dontcha know?

these fucker dharma professionals who go around telling people thinking is bad have no fucking understanding what thinking is.

smells, sounds, thoughts, feelings all on the same fucking plane.

sensorial bullshit.

but no, what our cerebrum cortexes produce is fucking holy.

holier than the cow shit you smell when you fart?

hayzooz, fervirginmaryssakes, shoot me now!

qbitty said...

settle down, mikey, it's only you and the blog, remembah?

well, & the holy ghost, true.

Jinzang said...

the AllMighty Tibetans at one time believed you can't free yourself if you're in a female vehicle.

No, that's not true. All Buddhists believe either gender can become enlightened,

if you're a philosopher, might as well suck up to amida, because maybe maybe in pure land you'll be able to rid yourself of concepts and get out.

It' true that enlightenment is beyond concept, but the greatest Tibetan masters have been both philosophers and practitioners.

qbitty said...

"at one time" means in the past.

at one time, tibetans were worse than the chinese, they way they were trying to pillage around.

which is why no shit sherlock they're eating some shit today.

oh, tibetans, mighty w0rd, they must be beyond THE LAW.

karmically,
your worst nightmare.

ps: you'll have to work really fucking hard before you make up for the judgmental shit you throw every which way, bro, & if in reality you are the fat fuck you portray in your avatar (which i'm sure you're a hot mama, but if you are), that's called karma too.

pps: fuck off.

Jared said...

Blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah BLAH blah blah, blah blah. Blah :: Blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah blah Blah Blah, blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah-blah.

Blah blah blah, blah blah.


Blah blah blah.

Jared said...

blah blah blah, Blah blah? Blah blah blah blah, blah blah!! Blah blah, blah.

Blah, blah blah blah blah blah. B.L.A.H. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah? Blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah. Blah blah blah - blah blah blah blah blah - blah.

Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah.

Blah blah blah.

qbitty said...

see, the lama understands, which is why he tells his boys, let's wait out till that shit karma burns out.

but no, the fuckers wanna RISE UP again, just like back before they were these "can do no good" beings.

you know when you have someone on a pedestal, there's a HUGE pro'lem.

i'll give you another historical example.

take the friggin holocaust. why did it happen, you say? because hitler was crazy and couldn't be helped by zen.

you holy ignorant fuck.

read wikipedia, but penetrate!

"He was rejected twice by the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna (1907–1908), citing "unfitness for painting," and was told his abilities lay instead in the field of architecture.[11] His memoirs reflect a fascination with the subject:

“From morning until late at night, I ran from one object of interest to another, but it was always the buildings which held my primary interest."

read more (like his biography) and find out that holy fuck, who turned him down from pursuing his life dream?

2 fucking jews.

does this make the whole jew population judgmental asshole like you?

NO.

but still, now you have this guy with his LIFE DREAM shattered.

and my friend, out of LOVE FOR ARCHITECTURE (and denial of pursuing that dream by 2 jews), comes the fucking Holocaust.

now what?

they got the money, so they write the history.

& no 1 can say a w0rd against ANY JEW anymore.

well fucking Isaac Asimov was a Jew.

a Black Sheep Jew at that and why?

because he understood jews are no stupider and no smarter than the rest of us.

given Power, they get corrupted Absolutely.

again, fuck off, jinzang, you're a fat judgmental fuck with no ability to see anything for yourself, even tho it's always in front of your goddam eyes.

now what?

you gonna tell me this is evidence of full blown mania?

you waste of human being.

michael bardan said...

you're too stupid to understand
stay the fuck away from approaching me
You can keep the Hell you create
I will keep making fun of your suffering
your sorry SELF
you fucking full of your sorry self holy ghost

you are a TRUE ASSHOLE
this shit i'm giving you is called compassion for TRUE ASSHOLES like you.


again, fuck off
you're a fat judgmental fuck
you waste of human being.


pps: fuck off.

michael bardan said...

ok jared, if i go to willi i'll have some chai if you're willing to make it for me.

\m/

Anonymous said...

bud, what's up with you? did you have some extreme stress at some point in your life? maybe early on?

Anonymous said...

Too many coffees and marlboro lights this morning z0tl my brother?

Anonymous said...

or are you stll wasted from last night?

michael bardan said...

lessee, in the interest of truth be told and blog history making:

11 years old: chain letter (in those days you had to carbon copy them you know by hand) arrives in my mail box saying send this over to 6 other or else some bad, bad shit will happen and if you do, some good. i say, fuck you, no one tells me what to do. not 1 week later, here comes a car crash and i'm watching my mom die on the side of the road, gasping for air, but instead gurgling down her own blood.

that later on i could refrain from killing the idiot child who needed to come back and tell me there's truth in chain letters after all, is a good sign, neh?

that in this blog i can take good advice from z8tl's mom and smile gently is also a good sign, neh?

18 years old: i'm in the army and my grandfather says to me, if you want to live, don't shoot your gun. i don't and i live, but others who postponed their service say 3 years and came here to get shot in the head for nothing aren't so lucky, so i understand there's no control over this life or anything, only cosmic irony.

34 years old: it's 2oo4, but really, it's 1984! they (the people who can diagnose "full blown manias" IRL take everything from me, the concept of soulmate i was married to for 17 years, and why, because i speak and yell:

!!!! stay the fuck away from me !!!!

because i am a man, no one takes it seriously if i say i'd prefer raped in the ass in the joint on a daily basis, than what these guys did to me.

they think i'm "exaggerating."

38 years old: i get everything back, i'm rid of all concepts and codependencies and i make the mistake to go around to licensed zen practitioners to ask:

what do you understand, because hakuin solved all my problems while i was trudging through the shadow of the valley of death whatevah and i'd love to sit around and chat.

i find what?

from birth till death, it's just like this.

when you're a demon, you're surrounded by demons, when you're a buddha, you're surrounded by buddhas.

i walk in this hell called earth, see if i give a shit!

Moon Face Buddha said...

Unfortunately it seems that discussion of the dharma has been replaced with ad hominem attacks by sombunal people here.

Anonymous said...

that's some intense stuff. I've experienced some intense stuff, but not to that degree.

Lauren said...

The other night I was completely miserable. Couldn't sleep. 2 in the morning. Just wanting someone to connect with. People literally within arms reach, but I was afraid to wake them with such bottemless need. Rocking and crying in butoh-autistic fashion. Perhaps a door too much zazen had unlocked.

All my zazen is useless. Zen is useless. Just a f**king intellectual mind game. This blog I lust after would probably just toss my pain around like a pool toy in intellectual glee. No real connections here...anywhere.

But strangely out of that darkness a certainty arose. "This too shall pass." I am strong as part of this all. I am not mis-placed. And there are hints from all of compassion at times. I think this certainty arises from zazen....maybe.

Be gentle...there is no fiction in this.

Andro said...

well.. discussion of the Dharma by people who don't have a clue about it's meaning is not a very valuable thing.

z0tl on the other hand, speaks what's on his Mind. that might not be your cup of tea but That does have some Value.

Jinzang said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Justin said...

I was just observing that Buddhism has a tendency to attract the desperate and unstable.

Maybe, I'm not sure. It doesn't seem to be the Ibiza crowd. What I see is a huge variety of people, but I have noticed a disproportionate number of people who might be considered 'oddballs' as well as a disproportionate number who work in social care and mental health. I don't think it's surprising.

I dont think Zen does work for the desperate and unstable. I think you have to be reasonably happy and grounded to begin with in order for it to work.

I don't know. I tend to think that some of the more unstable people I know could get a lot more grounded by doing Zen and that they would benefit more than I do.

unfortunately most of the happy and grounded people dont bother with things like religion or zazen because they are already content with their lives.

Sometimes. I think some people don't need it so much. Usually those people already have an accepting, 'zen-like' attitude. They are already in harmony.

Part of the fantasy that the desperate and unstable latch onto is that the happy grounded people who dont have any interest in zen arent really happy or grounded. I dont think thats true.

I've seen this too (and flashes of it in myself). Some people love to make an ideology out of anything that will give themselves a sense of superiority.

Henry said...

Some people love to make an ideology out of anything that will give themselves a sense of superiority.

I wouldn't say they 'love' to do this. That word choice seems to imply a conscious choice made from a calm mind, in my perception at least.

I think that if people are making something out of something to get a sense of something - that there's something unconscious they are resisting having become conscious, unconsciously. The behavior you describe would be unconscious reactivity to unconscious pain.

Or something like that. Am I close to making any sense? Honestly I'm trying to describe what I'm learning about myself.

Alphonzen said...

z0tl on the other hand, speaks what's on his Mind. that might not be your cup of tea but That does have some Value.

No value whatsoever. Thoughts are simply words/concepts/images, that are like the finger pointing towards the moon.

Justin said...

Coming back to Brad's original post. This is an interesting, thought-provoking article - a topic which goes right to the core of what Buddhism is about - birth, life and death.

Suicide is devastating to everyone whose life a person touches. No matter how much of a loner you are, there are people who care about you and it’s never easy to deal with someone you care about killing themselves.

Very true. But I think there is an exception in case of someone who has been suffering for a long time with some illness. Their suicide is easier to accept in that case I imagine. It might be a relief.

Even if committing suicide solves the immediate problem by ending a poor relationship or making it so your stomach doesn’t hurt anymore, the suffering you thought was yours alone spreads out like a wave to those parts of the universe you’ve been taught to think of as separate from you.

Very true.

It’s impossible for me to believe that even the person who dies does not, in some way, continue to suffer just as greatly after suicide as before. I no longer believe it’s possible to leave this world.

Buddhism teaches that ultimately the person does not exist. 'The person' is a fiction, a symbol, a conventional truth. To ask where the person goes after death is to ask a question outside of the scope where it had any meaning. It's like asking where a flame goes when the candle is blown out or what happens to a fictional character after the last page.

Buddhism teaches that we are not separate from the world. There are two views about death which Buddha rejected: eternalism - the idea that we continue to exist after death and annihilationism - the idea that at death we stop existing. Both make the error of taking our sense of duality for a metaphysical reality.

Sometimes in zazen or at other times we can have the experience that our 'self' and 'this moment' are exactly the same phenomenon. We normally compartmentalise them as an active process. Sometimes we experience the past, present and future disappearing leaving one, ever-changing, timeless moment.

Dogen said:

"Once firewood turns to ash, the ash cannot turn back to being firewood. Still, one should not take the view that it is ashes afterward and firewood before.
He should realize that although firewood is at the dharma-stage of firewood, and that this is possessed of before and after the firewood is beyond before and after. Life is a stage of time and death is a stage of time, like, for example, winter and spring."

Before and after, past, present and future, birth, stasis and death are all conventions of thought, based on our limited perspective.

I don't think its possible to leave this world - we're not only dependent on it, we are it. And the end of suffering is not an experience that the suicidal person will experience if he kills himself. Nonexistence doesn't exist. However, this doesn't mean that the person will 'stop' in their state of suffering either. The person doesn't ever exist as a continuing thing, only a convention of thought and language.

I don't think it can be expressed. But from where I am the best metaphor I can come up with is that ultimately we are all people, all experienced situations, all the time. And we're also nothing at all. But both of these are really nonsense.

But the experience of suffering exists (in a relative sense) and we can act out of compassion for the suffering that our decisions can cause.

Justin said...

The behavior you describe would be unconscious reactivity to unconscious pain.

Agreed. (I followed that bit!)

Henry said...

ya, it's like you have two magnets. One magnet represents the unconscious, one represents the conscious. Push them together with their north ends facing each other and they will splay out to the sides. This is reactivity, addiction, displacement, aggression, etc.

Or, just be aware of that weird sense of two north ends of magnets pushing against each other.

It's nothing! Nothing is there! But it feels like something. Just paying attention to this weird sensation might take some of the charge out of the magnets. Demagnetize them.

Anonymous said...

thanks for the thought Alphonzen..

NellaLou said...

I met a Taoist priest in Taiwan once and I asked him "Why is religion important?" Immediately he said "It gives people comfort."

He didn't have to stop and think about it or give a long intellectual quote-ridden diatribe about it either. Its a good question to ask any teacher just to see where their head is at.

There are lots of ways people seek comfort or relief from discomfort (suffering), or in the extreme, escape- drugs, food, alcohol, suicide, the South Beach party scene, material comfort, dogmatism, ego-reinforcing self-delusion, etc.

Why all the discomfort when our comfort of choice is destroyed/removed/changed/lost/questioned?

Take a trip sometime to a place where comfort and even basic security is just a dream if not a completely alien concept. It makes one realize that comfort and security are just illusory. Take a trip to the next neighborhood and ask anyone who's just lost their house to the bank this week about the reality of comfort and security.

Both suffering and comfort are situationally, temporally and perceptually relative. And all these things change. Does that mean people can ever be happy? I think so if one is not all invested (time, money, energy, focus, etc.) in trying to prop up some dream about security and comfort. And if one can find something to appreciate without expectation. It seems to start there.

marty_o said...

Could someone explain why guys with the real answers are so compelled to prove it through blog comments?

Bardan, you should think about a hobby. Seriously, trolling to agree with your troll is just... sad. And boring. But I'll give you credit for not posting in Leet.

If y'all had half the answers you say you have, then tell me: why wank around in a comments section?

Looking forward to your incoherent response!

Mike H said...

anon-henry:

The magnet analogy isn't quite right.

The uncosscious doesn't quite exist as you state. The unconscious is that which we are choosing not to see in our mind.

The mind/consciousness is not a duality it is a continuum. It's more like a fade-to-black with loud thoughts being foremost and then thoughts become fuzzier until they blend into the ambient brain-noise and from there we move out into the sensate world of the body.

In biological terms thoughts that we are aware of are those that have reached a certain potential - it's like we can only notice the biggest waves on the sea.

The analogy breaks quickly because there is no above/below of surface.

Zazen allows us to drop the artificial distinction between conscious/unconscious. That's not always a safe thing to do and people who have lots of repressed material can suffer from one hell of a shock.

Justin said...

I enjoyed your comment Nella.

Both suffering and comfort are situationally, temporally and perceptually relative. And all these things change. Does that mean people can ever be happy? I think so if one is not all invested (time, money, energy, focus, etc.) in trying to prop up some dream about security and comfort. And if one can find something to appreciate without expectation. It seems to start there.

This is what Buddhism encourages. In the face of a world where everything is changing, instead of trying to cling to aspects of it, we can cultivate 'an intuitive tolerance for the ungraspability of things'. AFAIK Taoism is the same. Maybe comfort of sorts, but comfort based on clinging and delusion might get us into trouble later.

Justin said...

why wank around in a comments section?

Is this a modern equivalent of 'Why did Bodhidharma come from the west?'

element said...

Qbitty, thanks for the yoga garden link!

Regarding suicide, I don't know.
Do it/ Don't do it. I think people who are about to do it aren't interested in anyones view. I think they know that it is bad for the people they left behind and anything. They can't care anymore.
Isn't the world doin "suicide", with global warming, ..., though we know the consequences are bad for people we left behind, or is this another case?
Reason doesn't always help, I think.

"Buddhism attracts the depressed the mentally ill, the ones with low self esteem the ugly the unwanted the nerds the losers."

Maybe thats true, but I like such people more than the "happy" ones.

I finish this with the words of a loser, who thought a lot about suicide, pessimism ... - E. M. Cioran:

"It is not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late."

henry said...

@mike_h

yes, you're right... it's an inexact analogy. I like what you wrote about the continuum.

But I'm not so sure about this:

The unconscious is that which we are choosing not to see in our mind.

I associate choice with the conscious mind. I think that the stuff in me that is repressed is not repressed by my choice. Otherwise, I would have had a big emotional catharsis by now, because I want one!

I'm thinking of trauma that happened before the word-intellect formed in my mind. That trauma was experienced and stored in a way that I have forgotten - so trained am I by now to associate 'me' with word-thoughts.

The pre-intellect unconscious stuff seems like it is in opposition to the conscious mind, or something like that.

Ugh, I'm lost. time to sit & let it sort itself slowly I guess...

Mike H said...

anon-henry:

"I associate choice with the conscious mind. I think that the stuff in me that is repressed is not repressed by my choice. "

Unfortunately that's just not true - either from a Budhdist or a psychological viewpoint.

In my own case it's true that there are things that at some level I am choosing not to see.

I know this because when I become exceedingly tired or sit in zazen for a long period of time or do something that requires all my attention/awareness these things will surface.

Ergo, I must be expending energy in order not to see these things.

If you think about Zazen all you really do is sit still and not try to do or change or reject anything. There is a consicous act of choosing not to control if you will. Thus during Zazen lots of things may arise that you were not previously aware of.

The fundamental of "choose not to" is "who chooses?" Certainly it's not the thing that we call "I" but it is perhaps the thing that creates "I".

I'm a little tired so I'm not too coherent now but I hope you get what I'm trying to express.

henry said...

I do, a bit, thanks for writing it out :-)

Mike H said...

anon-henry:

We may not be aware of the fact that we are choosing not to see something.

I was chatting to my parents a few weeks ago and in doing so I realised I'd been avoiding something. I had an excuse but it didn't feel the absolute truth.
When I did what I had been unconsciously avoiding I was conscious of why I was avoiding it.

With something like freestyle dancing that I love I find that it requires an enormous amount of effort from me - I have to dance with awarenes of my partner-au-moment, of my-our respective positions and timings, any signalling she is giving me re her expectations and of course I also have to plan a sequence of moves and keep to the beat of the music. That's rather a lot of processing.

I often find that I run out of brainpower and that things may start to surface that were previously repressed.

Since it happens when I max out on brainpower it suggests brainpower was being used to ignore it and to ignore the fact that I was ignoring it.

Thus what I do over time is to keep pushing at that boundary - every week, week in week out so that more stuff surfaces.

When you are ready to do it you will find a way. It's more about being willing to let go rather than "I WILL conquer".

Zazen is a most excellent way of doing this for most people.

henry said...

wow, that's actually really helpful for where i'm at right now... thank you!

michael bardan said...

alphonzen is right on this one: no value whatsoever in my w0rds.

marty, what does incoherence mean? when you don't understand something, that means i'm incoherent (using unskillful means) and i need to shut up?

& if i don't, you'll have jinzang label me "mentally ill" and drug me out of this seeming existence?

actually, drug me out not even out of here, just out of my ability to speak and tell you:

the hells you'll burn in for doing shit like that are truly unspeakable.

the karma law, once you understand it truly, is a thing of BEAUTY.

am i the 1 to put you there? no.

you have put yourself there already.

Mysterion said...

Hmmm...

Did I say I was suffering? If so, I apologize. The suffering of which I speak is merely empathy.

In 1974 (when I was twenty-something) I had allergenic bronchitics but I got over it when I moved out of Eden to the shores of the Pacific. You see, the garden of eden is only a hell of a different color. I can live in comfort either in the desert or by the Pacific Ocean (both of which I like). Hisako prefers the Pacific. We are quite comfortable. Tea?

Zazen is like the Pacific - peaceful except during times of storm.

PhilBob-SquareHead, we try to give up the storms, not the Zazen.

As for assholes - yes, even in a crowd of one there is a real asshole.

In the case of a colostomy, the asshole has to "brown bag" it.

Ga-sho-nuff
O-cha-ryu

michael bardan said...

mike_h says after a hard day at work:

The fundamental of "choose not to" is "who chooses?" Certainly it's not the thing that we call "I" but it is perhaps the thing that creates "I".

This is bullshit on so many levels, but mainly because you use concepts that you have no idea at all how to distinguish between.

Here's how I would say it: who chooses? certainly there is NOT A THING ANYWHERE to choose.

don't try to fucking objectify the subject.

anyway, at the level you spoke, you can replace your I with something like Ego or I-concept and then what you said is PERFECTLY true.

henry said...

oh shoot, I should stay out of this, but I guess I am seeking a lesson Michael.

When you write:
who chooses? certainly there is NOT A THING ANYWHERE to choose.

To me that references anicca/impermanence and anatta/no self.

But you prefact it with:
Here's how I would say it

If there is not a thing to choose, is there not also not a thing to say it correctly?

school me m'man.

Matt said...

once again, Jared hits it on the head :)

I'll never understand why people show up on other people's blog to blog. I know it's not quite a captive audience, but still...

::makes asinine comment about the true nature of the blogger doing the blogging doing the blogging FUCK PISS HARDCORE obscure punk japanese name drop *knowing wink*::

--matt

henry said...

phuk - Mike_H, I'm serious, your answers are triggering a big shift in my mind right now. It's all about responsibility and accountability. (I'm coming out of a ptsd situ with years of addiction, etc that have diminished). I'm realizing that I AM CHOOSING to do some random activity rather than simply be still and aware of what I am feeling - many times throughout the day.

Man, thanks for tipping that Domino :-)

NellaLou said...

Some radio announcer said that kids with autism are just spoiled brats without fathers to give them discipline or something like that. He was pissed because some parents were protesting about funding or the like.

This attitude of dismissing others, without really hearing their viewpoint, by making judgemental statements/blanket condemnations/pop psychology diagnoses and just uninformed rude noises has made me consider a lot over the past week or so.

Maybe there wouldn't be so much suffering in the world if instead of trying to start an I Hate _____ Club (Name of your choice in the blank) one could get out of the mental comfort zone and take a shot at empathy or even compassion. If that is too much of a stretch tolerance could be a remote possibility.

But then again we all want to remake the world into our own image.

Anonymous said...

yes yes yes!

we had a heat wave here on sunday. hot and humid. on my way to the grocery store I passed three homeless people, one an elderly man. they were sweating terribly and looked awful. It was so hard to walk by them. In the grocery store I bought them all water and grapes. Next time there is a heat wave I'm going to go buy lots of water and hand it out. Maybe tickets to the subway where they can ride an air conditioned train all day. People can die in this heat!!!

look I don't want a prize - I'm anonymous - I'm just saying that in my own life I'm seeing myself hitting this 'enough is enough' level more and more and the next step is to just act when I see an oportunity.

Keith said...

Brad,

Thanks for the great article on Suicide Girls.

Best,
Keith

michael bardan said...

well technically speaking, the only thing you can do is save yourself.

once you truly do that, then you're done.

which is proof positive the buddha couldn't do jackshit.

had he done it, none of us would be here whining now, would we?

so buddha was yet another loser just like the rest of us who DID GET IT, but all he did is he saved himself.

he saw clearly there's nothing to be saved, yet here i am sometimes talking like it's the end of the world.

i don't understand why i'm on the blog doing what i'm doing.

yet here i am.

michael bardan said...

now let's go to the other level.

buddha taught for however many years, but not 1 w0rd was spoken.

there's not 1 goddam blog in this universe. except for you who reads it and thinks there is 1.

michael bardan said...

here's yet another level, let's say you're x'tian.

in the name of the father (subject)
the son (object)
& the holy ghost (that not a thing whatsoever that makes it so I can say:

AMEN

michael bardan said...

i don't really know how else to put it, i mean i do, i can put it in thousands of ways, but all of them will be either mentally ill or irrational or i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about get the fuck out shut up.

remember how i said where i am, death isn't, where death is, i am not?

i didn't say that of course, some other schmuck who knew said it.

i can say where I am, YOU are not, and where YOU are, I am not. and why? because then, you are I.

yet all bloody day long, we think we're here together and can actually do jackshit to each other.

THAT is laughable and the cosmic joke and the reason why usually your 1st kensho will make you laugh for 1/2 day (hysterically, at times) nonstop.

but then you forget again.

no 1 can do anything, because from the beginningless beginning NOT A THING IS.

by the way, did i have kensho?

no.

and why?

because i am asking someone to validate it for me and that someone does not exist.

how could they possibly validate your kensho for you?

Anonymous said...

yet all bloody day long, we think we're here together and can actually do jackshit to each other.

I don't know man, I mean it was a really hot day and this elderly guy was sitting outside with his bags and he looked just awful. So that's why I gave him the water.

I guess I can't do a thing for your evolution or your inner world or whatnot. But I can do things, or give you things you can use to keep your vehicle in good shape so you can have relative peace to try and figure out your own deal and what to do about it.

Like, we can't do jack shit for each other but someone gives you a paycheck and I bet you use it! :-p

michael bardan said...

anony, i don't mean it that way at all.

giving the guy in front of you when he's thirsty water IS buddhahood.

the giving of water IS [all there is, actually].

you and the homeless guy are not.

michael bardan said...

k enuff bullshit for 1 day, i go use that paycheck now ;)

Anonymous said...

that's rad. omnidirectional compassion. plug in :-)

NellaLou said...

@hobbyist. "If y'all had half the answers you say you have, then tell me: why wank around in a comments section?
Looking forward to your incoherent response!"
Here's a smorgasbord of answers for your dining pleasure.
-Its one of the few places to wank in public and not get arrested.
-I enjoy the upholstery
-Brad lets everyone come and play in his back yard
-The drinks are free
-There's room to do yoga as we snipe at one another
-Some of the chaps have sexy accents
-Oh I thought this was a cricket forum

PhilBob-SquareHead said...

"In the case of a colostomy, the asshole has to 'brown bag' it."

fucking hilarious

Jinzang said...

Here's a YouTube video of Shunryu Suzuki that's relevant to what Brad said about the distinction between me and the world being not so solid.

Jinzang said...

you'll have jinzang label me "mentally ill" and drug me out of this seeming existence?

Michael, in my ideal world the doctors would only hand out little white homeopathic pills.

michael bardan said...

i think in my world it's getting close to believing the christian scientists are right goddam it.

also, the only correct religion: mormon.

and why? eyes wide shut, of course, was filmed right here in sandy eggo at the big white temple off I5.

ok, i kid, i kid, but lay off labeling people whatsoever.

ty for vid. the related one that came up (as related vid) after watching yours is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNXM4Sq-GIA

michael bardan said...

courtesy clink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNXM4Sq-GIA

Anonymous said...

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I diaper? his so witness digestive. It rash No sinful. Or pottery. In my exemption. Go or apocalyptic unzip livelihood. saliva by bobby. be constraint, seasoning the mustang.

granny said...

mikey, the more i hate you the brighter i shine. but i am hating you a lot less lately. that makes me feel desperate and unstable because you are bad.

Justin said...

['adds' Nellalou]

pillbob said...

['adds' Justin]

curly said...

'100!!' nyuk, nyuk, nyuk..

Mike H said...

anon-henry:

It's PTSD stuff that I've been dealing with also and so stuff that is coming up is not fun.

Most of my zen practice has been wrapped around PTSD recovery.

On some days I can still be a little fragile. I just allow myself to be that way - and stay the fuck away from people who cannot deal with that!!!!

I work 3-4 days a week instead of 5+ because on most weeks that is what I can cope with.

I find that accepting honestly where I am is half the battle.

The other half of the battle is to act in a way that generates healing - which of course includes compassion for myself, for others and so on.

Mixing PTSD recovery with Zen practices will make for tough practice but it is practice. It is doable. It just takes time.

There are others around who have/are doing this. No names. No Pack drill.

NellaLou said...

['adds'Justin]

marty_o said...

Bardan, for the record no one here called you mentally ill. If you want to curse me out, feel free, but at least keep your story straight.

A friend of mine was a Marine. He lost his left arm on Iwo Jima, and his right eye in the Marshall Islands. He used to say that people who have been to hell don't brag about the trip.

Since it seems to me that you're also doing your share of labeling and judging, B., then perhaps we'll meet in hell. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

"i don't understand why i'm on the blog doing what i'm doing."

L

michael bardan said...

it's always 5 am somewhere, this isn't a comment.

i'm hitting it and you think you're hearing:

ding

dinggggggggg

dinggggGGGGG

dinGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Anonymous said...

Who's your Bluebird today?

michael bardan said...

the owl goes: wu-wei, wu-wu.

still not hitting it spot 0n, methink:z!

comrade O, my apologies for not making it clear to your fruitfly attention span that i often address multiple posts within 1 response.

as such, it is jinzang, for the record, who diagnosed me (based on my posting style) as experiencing mania. last i checked, that was part of another label which current wisdom of the west labels it as bipolar.

since you trust your friend's judgment, why don't you invite him to gaze into my eyes once over coffee and after that you can let me know about the bragging i do.

also, for the fruitfly record, i said something along the line:

i walk THIS hell, see if i give a shit.

apparently i do, otherwise i wouldn't even bother to qualify you with an answer.

for those of you who understand i'm an asshole and liberation for me can only mean continuing to be an asshole, but unidentified with whoever thinks i'm an asshole:

when i bragged about my mom dying in front of my very watchful eye, i decided then and there that in order to avoid PITY in this lifetime, i must don the role of ASSHOLE, so that fuckers like comrade O, old fuckers like McCain, stiff from warmongering, will not continue to "support our troops" by killing our sons and daughters, so that our gas money makes some sick fucks believe they are actually defending our freedom.

but i digress. comrade O, if you ever talk to me again, don't feel SORRY for me. i don't even need your fake pity, let alone the real 1.

Anonymous said...

mikey, you remind me so much in attitude of the original cross mike.

Jordan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jordan said...

Anonymous,
That is hardly fair. Mike Cross is much better at getting his point across.

michael bardan said...

you guys are so pathetic.

i'm a troll, man, what possible point can i have?

that's like those of you morons who still work on MU thinking a dog can actually HAVE buddhanature.

hayzooz x'rist, i'm measuring dicks with pussies.

Jordan said...

MB,
your right. I stand corrected, Mike cross is much better at getting a point across.
Thank you

Anonymous said...

Jordan, How can you say my perception is unfair? Attitude does not have much do with clarity.

Anonymous said...

combative, intolerant, aloof, paranoid, self sure.

Anonymous said...

zen trolls are THE BEST !!!!

all the 'self' stuff... one post I'm caught up in it... the next it's totl comedy!

michael bardan said...

ty jordan, i updated my profile with my dog tag, so you can dig out the dirt on me like these other flies who discovered i have a myspace account where my man boob:z and conehead are showing...

stay safe.

Anonymous said...

one other thing Jordan, I think I am one of the few here that thinks that z0tl is brilliant. he's got issues but is near fearless. at least compared to most other buddhists.

fuck you z0tl you retard.. I don't want to hear about it. I know you don't give two shits.

Mike H said...

anon:

Fearless people don't actually go round picking fights with everyone. What would be the point?

z0tl claims to be a wannabe troll but I wonder if he is just a troll here or more generally.

Trolls' usually have an agenda of starting fights; not drawing attention to themselves.

I may of course actually be speaking to z0tl but no matter.

michael bardan said...

i propose a little experiment and this is only possible if sensei warner understands and participates.

let's ALL post as ANONYMOUS and avoid using ANY NAMES.

we talk in terms of I and YOU and him and her (or ze whatevah the fuck transgenies like these days), but just no names that can identify any1.

then let's see what happens.

blogger is not yet advanced enough to allow ANONYMOUS COMMENTS ONLY (like ftp access for example), but still, we can all do this who have an interest whatsoever to get past "picking fights" whatever that means.

anyway, while i'm still teh mikey bee troll in life and elsewhere, because it really matters shit to YOU, look out your fucking window and find a guy who asks for water, man!

i'm not asking for anything, just holding up mirrors to each and every1 of you, coz i got huge bandwidth.

and why?

the other day i was reasons some stupid fucks "experience of enlightenment" haha "spiritual experience" my fucking ass, we're all 1, whatever, and she was saying I AM THE OCEAN.

oh, yeah?

you are the ocean, honey?

hear this:

i am FUCKING X1-GYGNUS and when i get here, there won't be a fucking solar system left in sight for you to be ocean in.

Anonymous said...

Pertinent Wiki FAQ:

Cygnus X-1 belongs to a high-mass X-ray binary system about 6000 light years from the Sun that includes a blue supergiant variable star designated HDE 226868. A stellar wind from the star provides material for an accretion disk around the X-ray source.[14] Matter in the inner disk is heated to millions of kelvin (K), generating the observed X-rays.[15][16] A pair of jets, arranged perpendicular to the disk, are carrying part of the infalling material away into interstellar space.[17]

This system may belong to a stellar association called Cygnus OB3, which would mean that Cygnus X-1 is about five million years old and formed from a progenitor star that had more than 40 solar masses. The majority of the star's mass was shed, most likely as a stellar wind. If this star had then exploded as a supernova, the resulting force would most likely have ejected the remnant from the system. Hence the star may have instead collapsed directly into a black hole.[10]

Cygnus X-1 was the subject of a friendly scientific wager between physicists Stephen Hawking and Kip Thorne in 1974, with Professor Hawking betting that it was not a black hole. He conceded the bet in 1990 after observational data had strengthened the case for a gravitational singularity in the system.[18]

Madonna said...

Do I have to change my name? Will it get me far?
Should I lose some weight? Am I gonna be a star?

I tried to be a boy, I tried to be a girl
I tried to be a mess, I tried to be the best
I guess I did it wrong, That's why I wrote this song
This type of modern life - Is it for me?
This type of modern life - Is it for free?

So I went in to a bar, looking for sympathy
A little company - I tried to find a friend
It's more easily said, it's always been the same
This type of modern life is not for me
This type of modern life is not for free

American life (American life)
I live the American dream (American dream)
You are the best thing I've seen
You are not just a dream (American life)

I tried to stay ahead, I tried to stay on top
I tried to play the part, but somehow I forgot
Just what I did it for and why I wanted more
This type of modern life - Is it for me?
This type of modern life - Is it for free?

Do I have to change my name? Will it get me far?
Should I lose some weight? Am I gonna be a star?

American life (American life)
I live the American dream (American dream)
You are the best thing I've seen
You are not just a dream (American life X2)

I tried to be a boy, tried to be a girl
tried to be a mess, tried to be the best
tried to find a friend, tried to stay ahead
I tried to stay on top ...
Fuck it!
Do I have to change my name? Will it get me far?
Should I lose some weight? Am I gonna be a star?
Oh,Fuck it!(X3)


I'm drinking a Soy latte,
I get a double shotte, it goes through my body,
And you know I'm satisfied
I drive my Mini Cooper
And I'm feeling super-dooper
Yo they tell I'm a trooper
And you know I'm satisfied
I do yoga and palates
And the room is full of hotties
So I'm checking out the bodies
And you know I'm satisfied
I'm digging on the isotopes
This metaphysic's shit is dope
And if all this can give me hope
You know I'm satisfied
I got a lawyer and a manager
An agent and a chef
Three nannies, an assistant
And a driver and a jet
A trainer and a butler
And a bodyguard or five
A gardener and a stylist
Do you think I'm satisfied?
I'd like to express my extreme point of view


I'm not Christian and I'm not a Jew
I'm just living out the American dream

And I just realised that nothing
Is what it seems


Do I have to change my name
Am I gonna be a star
Do I have to change my name

Anonymous said...

you're brilliant (validating against higher form) teacher (thanks so much for passing me thru MU and thus letting me know it's all bullshit).

you're a retard (validating against lower form) z0tl (thanks so much for assuring myself that i'm the shiznit).

both live on the same (ignorant) plane.

!!!! LEARN TO VALIDATE WITHIN YOUR OWN FORM !!!!

Anonymous said...

I make cupcakes with forms and I validate them in my belly :-0

Jordan said...

MB,
Stay safe.

Anonymous said...

mike doe - I get the impression that z0tl doesn't really care if you think he is fearless or a coward. I don't think he is seeking our approval. those words typed on a screen don't mean shit anyway. if you say he's a troll, he's a troll because that is all he is, to you and a lot of other people. And if you can't or won't see past that little pigeon hole, it might be more of your problem than his.

Anonymous said...

Hmm, I admit I have been trolling here in the past but at least I focused on insulting Brad on not the general public.

Unsound people shouldn't get any audience.

Anonymous said...

'Unsound people shouldn't get any audience.'

gee, thanks your majesty..

Anonymous said...

fearless not FEARLESS.. kind of like retarded fearlessness. i just like the guy's writing sometimes.. he can be really good when he's not being a retard. I like it that he doesn't censor himself too much or revere old forms to the point of fetishizing them.

Anonymous said...

It's good to see Noble Ones.
Happy their company always.
Through not seeing fools constantly,
one would also be happy.

Anonymous said...

Listen Up! Let met assure you again that the Buddha dwells not in light, nor sentient beings in darkness, for the Truth allows no such distinctions. The Buddha is not mighty, nor sentient beings feeble, for the Truth allows no such distinctions. The Buddha is not Enlightened, nor sentient beings ignorant, for the Truth allows no such distinctions. It is all because you take it upon yourself to talk of explaining Zen!

Anonymous said...

Focus,
not on the rudenesses of others,
not on what they've done
or left undone,
but on what you
have & haven't done yourself

Anonymous said...

The voice of success and profit
May stir the vault of heaven,
But not this place.
In the rounds of the day,
You wear threadbare clothing
And eat simple fare.
When the mountain snow deepens,
Your thoughts
Are far from those of men.
Occasionally,
Immortals pass your door
And knock.

Anonymous said...

Unsound people shouldn't get any audience.

on a plane where it is clear you've never dwelled yet, there are no people, so no audience, so your statement is harmless, sure, however for you to experience that and understand why while in a realm of form, that uttering is akin to murder, you need your ass stuck in a formless hell realm for a while, then you'll know the extents of vileness that statement makes in here.

Anonymous said...

Because you grasp labels and slogans,
You are hindered by
Those labels and slogans,
Both those used in
Ordinary life and those
Considered sacred.
Thus they obstruct your
Perception of objective truth,
And you cannot understand clearly.

Anonymous said...

God created Us in His Image.

Whatever.

We therefore MUST create in Our Image.

We created the computer.

Stay focused in this plane.

Stay with Einstein's SpaceTime delusion which binds you All, most of All You who practice Pseudo-Science, which in absence of God, is always resulting in Abomination.

Stay focused here, in ordinary life.

Now imagine that there's "a thing" that can decide between good and bad. This thing (even though it's a no thing), must be outside/above both good and bad or otherwise it could never decide between them.

What are your good and bad decisions based on?

Your memory.

You have memory, just like the computer has memory.

In absence of MEMORY, good and bad lose their meaning.

The Gold Fish (with an attention span of 3 seconds) is pretty happy you suppose, except the Gold Fish probably lives within 3 seconds 1 lifetime.

Stay here. In this ordinary world of movies and car crashes.

Perhaps you've been in a car crash.

Did you NOTICE the time ACTUALLY SLOWING DOWN?

Maybe you did not have enough practice to notice anything, maybe you just panicked and shut down and suffer from shock even now, because you do not know how to release that shock, physically, in this form.

PTSD is like that.

Please read Peter Levine's book, Waking the Tiger: Transform Overwhelming Experiences.

Just that book alone, with no zazen, will teach you enough to escape the terrors/traumas described by White Coats as PTSD.

Please do not identify with a "disease" invented by a system, regardless how good or bad that system may appear.

Use Buddha's advice, don't listen to His Words, just try and see for yourself.

Are you still focused here and the analogy of God images (Wo)Man images Computer?

Now let's say the PROCESSOR is that which is able to decide after reading a chunk of MEMORY what to do.

This is true and so it is with what decides inside you every morning to get out of bed, because somehow that action is deemed GOOD within your MEMORY.

Please do not think the PROCESSOR is ANALOGOUS to your BRAIN.

It is not.

However, let us say that it is possible to take a processor from one computer and place it into the next.

New MEMORY/HARD DRIVE results in a BRAND NEW COMPUTER ALTOGETHER.

Will the processor know it is running LINUX or WINDOWS or embedded processing in a cell phone?

NO.

So the I works.

When I speak through this object, there is only consciousness of this object, when I speak through your object, there is only consciousness of that object.

Now imagine processors of infinite speed that move processors of less speed from computer to computer.

Sort of the robotization of everything.

You can have the situation where there is ONE PROCESSOR cycling through 6.6 billion computers and voila, a World, within a Chiliocosm.

It is all about SPEED.

That is why you need to SIT.

SITTING develops FOCUS.

Every moment it is like a car crash.

Every moment there's an opportunity for you (not to get out of the car crash), but to SEE THROUGH IT.

To see through the delusion of SpaceTime.

In the absence of Enduring, there is no Time.

Obliterate SpaceTime in a twinkle of instantaneous intuition.

YOU CAN DO IT.

Just like Nike.

Are you still focused in this plane?

Okay.

Look at the Sun.

It's always here and you can believe it.

Every time your Cognitive Behavioural Therapist says I'll teach you a Thought Stopping Technique, say to her:

When I have a bad thought, I glimpse into the Sun and recognize in that instant that that thought cannot be there, it is not there, because the Photonic Beam replaces it in that instant.

In the next instant, know that you don't want Retinal Damage, so please do not do this ALL THE TIME, however LOOK UP OFTEN and DARE TO GAZE INTO THE SUN.

It is what gives everything LIFE in this Solar System.

Are still with me?

Who makes the Animal Kingdom possible here?

Air.

Who makes air?

The GREEN Realm

Photosynthesis is not a stupid process. It is converting LIGHT into something YOU NEED EVERY MOMENT to LIVE.

Be grateful every day to the Sun and then to the GREEN REALM.

Realize when you are a vegetarian that the Reason that is Healthy is because GREEN is a more EVOLVED realm which graceously lets you LIVE on top of it.

If the Sun hypothetically could ever decide for this Planet, the GREEN will survive the BROWN (the machines that produce shit all day long, literally).

Bow down each time you eat your salad and stay healthy, bow down to that salad, then gaze into the Sun and bow down again, for it is that which makes this possible.

Anonymous said...

this has been a public broadcast of the holy ghost.

amen.

Harry said...

What tha ffffffffundamentalism?!!!

Which salad dressings are permissible?

I have always found vinaigrette to be somewhat against God and nature.

Regards,

Harry.

Anonymous said...

harry, you stupid, stupid fuck.

you call yourself a zen student.

if you said that to my face i swear on all gawds and daemons of all directions, i would throw my steamy mcdonalds coffee in your lap!

Anonymous said...

harry you are so fucking stupid, i will have to say this 3 times!

Anonymous said...

harry, please abandon zazen.

for you even the nembutsu may be too much!

Anonymous said...

holy ghost thank you yes about the car crash of course you know i also have the tiger book in my closet but have not read it yet now i will thank you please let me let this out because i'm so ready to go to work for you peace work for all of us

Harry said...

If, when I'm as sussed as you, I completely negate my sense of humour I'm running straight back to the loving (but no touching!) arms of blinkered Mother Church, or maybe that Nembutsu gig.

I'm no Zen student, I'm a student of my own great mistakes and delusion, and of your great mistakes as well; that's the way 'cruel fate' seems to want it.

So, are you the One-ball├ęd One or not? You may as well be I suppose.

What is it with guys called Michael who have only one ball?

Did Hitler really only have one ball?

Mike H, are you a recovering Oneball-ist?

What does this have to do with the international Jewish conspiracy and UFOs???

Regards,

Harry.

Harry said...

BTW,

You only called me "stupid fuck" and "fucking stupid" twice (just repeating "stupid" in the first instance does not count as a stand-alone 'stupid fuckism').

You owe me one.

Regards,

Harry.

granny said...

first mike h reacts badly to this poor damaged soul. then kind jordan follows with a less than kind retort. harry gets pissed and goes ghetto on little z0tl. it is almost like z0tl is a tiny hand mirror held up to all these buddhist fakers and posers. LEAVE z0tl the FUCK alone!!

Harry said...

Well, its just not 'cricket' to let everyone from Maxist Rebels to armchair internet 'Zen Masters' just run roughshod over you.

That IS quite in keeping with the religion of Nihilism though the fortunes of which seem to have taken quite a turn for the better recently.

Buddhism on the other hand is a religion of action so, if you act like a dick, then: DA-DA!!!... You're just effectively a dick.

This is getting good now.

The 'one-ball' question is still open; are we in the presence of Dogen Sangha royalty???

Regards,

Harry (part-time dick, faker, poser yes yes yes quite true etc yawn... like I say to the fortune tellers and quack "Spiritual Masters": "Tell me something I don't know!")

Anonymous said...

just lawful karma happening w/ those mirrors, yes? who intended it?

maxist rebel fighter said...

z0tl is evil. he might even be a maxist?. he wants to marry pillbob in a civil ceremony. he wants granny to be his best man. this is disturbing to us normal types.

Anonymous said...

soul, royalty, action?

laughable.

reflection of dogen?

may hakuin do a double binary switch and go nova in "his grave!"

scotty, i'm sorry i even tried.

Harry said...

Ah, repentance: now there's a start. That's good religion. Scotty would have forgiven you I think.

Regards,

Harry.

Anonymous said...

lolololololoz@you forgot the part where we invite ceausescu to officiate the knot tying.

Anonymous said...

i beg you someone anyone tell me this guy harry doesn't exist!

Anonymous said...

if he tries 1 more time i'll have another hysterical laughing kensho i swear to gawd they'll throw me out on my ass from the office for laughing so hard...

Harry said...

Yes, I'm actually just a traffic cone with a cheesy smile painted on :-(

Regards,

Harry.

Anonymous said...

i love it that you are entertaining all this harry. but i have to wonder why. are you losing faith? have you quit beating your wife?

Anonymous said...

Harry? ... is that one Harry Ball?

Harry said...

Wife beating is not one of my gigs... physical beating anyway.

And I'm not married.

I'm king of the 'emotional uppercut' of course which is its own world of damage.

Regards,

Harry.

Anonymous said...

z0tl is deep in sleep. he burns brightly and then must sleep. his hours are irregular, as are his pants.

Jordan said...

Granny,
That's an interesting observation.
I felt kind.

hairy said...

ball:z!

Anonymous said...

you would have been kind if you existed.

sadly, no, back to piping that amazing flute of yours.

Harry said...

...and waxing my nads.

Thanks for the pic, hairy.

Regards,

H.

Ass said...

light up your:z!

Anonymous said...

... forename endurance ignoramuses carmakers dogsbodies distinctivenesses ... sensitivities mica wisecrack inspects shikari augment steenbok triumphed ...
hopelessly partisan
THEN come marching in on your white horse to establish the peace. ... And, as such, is not restricted by any of the laws these ignoramuses like suchness and thus ...

Anonymous said...

black bugs are here, now we only miss tim da'ath ... sequence initiation @ friday 9 pm

doctor who says: bad w0lf!

agent molder said...

i want to believe!

Agent Scully said...

To think I once loved you!

xx

S

mc hawking said...

Rock With Your Hawk Out!

What We Need More of is Less Entropy!

x to teh z represent!

Anonymous said...

agreed hawk. it's the dick out rule from now on.

Anonymous said...

translucently endarkened hedgehog z0tl waving bye bye cygnus-x1 reversal entropic pulse initiated.

i'll see you in another 8 million kalpas, sukha:z!

Anonymous said...

this is uncanny. these are my exact thoughts during zazen.

mountaintop rebel said...

Wow. This place is becoming boring even for us trolls. At least the comments used to
pertain somewhat to either brad or zen, even if critical. Now it's just crap. I'm trolling elsewhere. A suggestion; off-topic comments should be deleted, whether these are from bloggers or just anons.

I will never post here again. Never, ever, ever. I promise. If anyone else posts under my moniker, it's not me, OK? I'm going to E Sangha and talk smack about Brad and this place now.
Toodles.

Anonymous said...

sweet jaysus.. z0tl's plan is wirking. the trolls are on the run.

Anonymous said...

GO OBAMA!

Anonymous said...

OBAMA VISITS WESTERN WALL IN OLD CITY JERUSALEM... ARRIVES AT 5:08 AM LOCAL TIME [10:08 PM ET]... SUNRISE... SHOUTING MAN: 'JERUSALEM IS NOT FOR SALE, OBAMA'... MOB SCENE... CHAOS... POSES FOR PHOTOS AT WALL... LOTS OF SHOUTING... LEAVES 5:20 AM...

Anonymous said...

many, for fear of stirring up trouble, said nothing.

michael bardan said...

reading timeline already jumped wtf is the matter. dark? hahaha. zero-sum=triple8

whatchu gonna do? come back again?

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Old Stoner Poem (1 of 3) said...

what, was I thinking?
what was, I thinking?
what was I, thinking?
what was I thinking!?

Anonymous said...

z0tl, forget about art. you are confusing things. you are a retard. speak retard. we will get it.

Old Stoner Poem (2 of 3) said...

to be or not to be?
that is not the question.
where is the smoking device?
that is the question.

Old Stoner Poem (3 of 3) said...

It does not matter whether
you are making the world
or the world is making you

truth in action has no correspondence

Anonymous said...

this is bringing a tear to my eye. Brad's blog is finally relevant. the dharma is alive. sniff.

Anonymous said...

you just killed it!

morya safetysound said...

Masons in internet conspiracy!
FACT!
z0gle uncovers triple threat to democracy!
PROOF!
On display at British Museum!

Matt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt said...

like...what happened? like...sweet merciful christ....

this place is like a fuckin' carnival, swarming with kids and no adults in sight.

like, i know i'm feeding the trolls, but can't you guys go masturbate at suicide girls?

I really think a case can be made that you are vandalizing someone's blog. For all the buddhist jargon that gets thrown around (not as ironically or wittily as everyone thinks) it's kind of impressive to see this level of childishness.

This could have beem a meaningful discussion about Zazen and (Heaven forbid) the topic of the BLOG ENTRY!

Remember that? The blog entry? something about Yoga and a mailing list? I think there was some mention of yoga as I scanned the almost 200 comments...

oh wait, that was a Madonna song.

Are you trying to drive people away from Brad's blog? I don't have unconditional love for the guy but if people are out to prove a point so aggressively I would think people would flock to YOUR blog instead of you having to come to Brad's to wank-off, letting your ideas stand on their own accord.

Instead you have to obscure them with textual games of Ring Around the Rosie.

Again, I realize I'm just feeding the trolls here, but Zen has enough obscure canon to wade through--it's practitioners are supposed to be direct and to the point.

You guys seem to delight in distracting from what is to be found here, which isn't intelligent conversation in the comments...

peace
--matt

NellaLou said...

Well Matt as I said before:

"But then again we all want to remake the world into our own image."

If Brad doesn't like it he can shut down comments, delete those that diverge from the subject,etc. It is his back yard.

By the fact that he doesn't says something in itself.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I've been lurking on this blog for some weeks now to get a better understanding about Zen. But, reading some of these posts here is like trying to decipher Zen Buddhists on crack.

That said, thanks for the endarkment with the non-discussion of being or not and the entire universe that really doesn't exist because neither do I. I just may commit suicide now.

Good article Brad, and thanks for the memories with bringing up "Batteries". The last time I was there I saw a band called Spongetunnel. They threw a bag a flour all over the floor and the front row during the finale. The owner then threw everyone out (eh, it was closing time anyway), and the bar closed a few weeks after that;)

NellaLou said...

If one wants rules they can go to E-sangha-they've got 28 of them for posts by lay persons and a bunch more for ordained people. Less than 12 out of the 186 comments here would be "fit" for that place if one applies the rules exactly as stated.

BTW Yoga and mailing lists are out-a religion other than Buddhism and off topic.

Sometimes the sub-text is far more relevant than the text.

Mike H said...

harry:

"Mike H, are you a recovering Oneball-ist?"

Hmmmm.

Maybe.

All I really know is that I woke up this morning to the sound of "Papercut", it's a beautiful sunny day and I'm gonna spend the day playing at being a geek with a bunch of other geeks in a day-long geekfest meeting. It'll probably be fun.

Most days I am just happy to wake up and realise I get to live another day. Most days that's enough for me.

michael bardan said...

*yaza*

/clappers 0n

get the fuck outta kitchen when you've never been jikijitsu b4.

bell, belll, bellll, bellllllll

Alphonzen said...

I hope Brad doesn't get the impression that most of the comments written are representative of his blog readers.

The vast majority of us don't even bother with the comments.

michael bardan said...

*8 prostrations*

Bodhisattva Perceiver of the World's Sound:

Forgive the Ignorant Parent who numbs the Child because (s)he makes "too much noise."

Forgive the Ignorant Doctor who numbs the Child because (s)he thinks there is such thing as "troubling Child."

Forgive the Ignorant Master who numbs the Child by telling him/her what to do or not do, according to their self-righteous attitude.

Forgive the Ignorant Marketer behind the televised numbness of this American Nation where no one questions anything anymore.

Forgive the Self Righteous Scientist who in the name of ever changing Dogma destroys what (s)he cannot understand.

Forgive those who in the name of Freedom kill.

Forgive those who slander the Masters by silencing the Child.

Forgive them All, for they know not what they do.

/clappers 0ff

Jesus and his Pops said...

Holy Ghost,

STFU

Three's a crowd ok?

michael bardan said...

*zazen* - sit 25 shuffle bell sit 25 tai-chi/kin-hin bell sit 25 shuffle bell sit 25 - end 2.5 hrs period.

if the Great Matter is a j0k3 to you, it isn't to this 1.

there will be sesshin on fucking stickam soon enough, i have to work out the bandwidth @h0me 1st.

by then if alphonwannabezen (worried oh no some1 may think pansy thoughts of HIS SORRY SELF) fuckers if you aren't going to be peeling off like flies, i'm a troll, oh yeh...

/clappers 0n

ding....

dinggggg........

dinggggggggg.........

dinggggggggggggg..........

Anonymous said...

Only when you have abandoned all perceptions, there being nothing objective to perceive, only when phenomena obstruct you no longer; only when you have rid yourself of the whole gamut of dualistic concepts...will you at last earn the title of Transcendental Buddha.

Anonymous said...

Apes spend their time throwing things away and picking them up again unceasingly, so it is with you and your learning. All you need is to give up your 'learning', your 'ignorant' and 'Enlightened' 'pure' and 'impure', 'great' and 'little', your 'attachment' and 'activity'. Such things are mere conveniences, mere ornaments within the One Mind.

Anonymous said...

197

Anonymous said...

'Apes spend their time throwing things away and picking them up again'

Huang Po should have included counting.

countin' ape said...

199

(seconds to cave)

Mountaintop Rebel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
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